1. Standard memberKellyJay
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    17 Sep '07 15:15
    Originally posted by vistesd
    I’ll pose the counter (and piggy-back off KJ in my answer):

    “How many non-Christians have a genuine, close friendship with a Christian, and still believe s/he is living an illusion?”

    All* of my Christian friends are living an illusion, and yes, I have more than a few.

    ________________________________

    * Well, there are a few heretics...
    You should give this it's own thread, I'd be interested in reading the
    responces.
    Kelly
  2. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    17 Sep '07 21:03
    Originally posted by freightdog37
    Your quote in 2 John 10 should actually be 2 John 1:10.

    All of your quotes are taken out of context. None of these deal with friends that are nonbelievers. I have many friends that are nonbelievers. Because they don't chose to believe in what Christ has done for each one of us in love and compassion is understandable. I can remember a time when I couldn't understand any of it either.
    I left out the 1 because there is only 1 book in 2 John.

    Your simply dismissal of my post doesn't have any analysis, so I'll assume you're just instictively discounting anything distasteful found in the Bible without any real reason for doing so.
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    19 Sep '07 03:41
    Most of the scriptures that you site have to do with false teachers and people trying to take advantage of others claiming the bible. The scriptures you site have nothing to do with being unbelievers.
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    20 Sep '07 08:14
    As christians you should be trying to convert your friends. I used to be catholic and remember a whole pile of stuff in the bible about how you should spread the word wherever you go.
    Of course, in today's world spreading ignorance is more popular than ever
  5. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    20 Sep '07 17:35
    Originally posted by freightdog37
    Most of the scriptures that you site have to do with false teachers and people trying to take advantage of others claiming the bible. The scriptures you site have nothing to do with being unbelievers.
    Please, give specific examples.
  6. Diverse City
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    20 Sep '07 21:36
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    I'm curious how many Christians have a genuine (close) friendship with a non-Christian and still believe s/he will be condemned to Hell.
    I do unfourtunatly.
  7. Standard memberknightmeister
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    20 Sep '07 22:261 edit
    Originally posted by freightdog37
    Your quote in 2 John 10 should actually be 2 John 1:10.

    All of your quotes are taken out of context. None of these deal with friends that are nonbelievers. I have many friends that are nonbelievers. Because they don't chose to believe in what Christ has done for each one of us in love and compassion is understandable. I can remember a time when I couldn't understand any of it either.
    All of your quotes are taken out of context....FREIGHT

    He does this all the time , it won't improve!
  8. Standard memberknightmeister
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    20 Sep '07 22:30
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    I left out the 1 because there is only 1 book in 2 John.

    Your simply dismissal of my post doesn't have any analysis, so I'll assume you're just instictively discounting anything distasteful found in the Bible without any real reason for doing so.
    Nope it's the other way round. You have an agenda in making the Bible say what you want it to so that you can pursue your mission of literalism and then dismiss christians for not being able to swallow their medicine. I know exactly what you are up to and will continue to challenge you. You are a game player.
  9. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    21 Sep '07 05:281 edit
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Nope it's the other way round. You have an agenda in making the Bible say what you want it to so that you can pursue your mission of literalism and then dismiss christians for not being able to swallow their medicine. I know exactly what you are up to and will continue to challenge you. You are a game player.
    And of course, you have no agenda. Despite my reading what the Bible says and you interpreting it to fit your preconceptions... 🙄
  10. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    21 Sep '07 05:30
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    All of your quotes are taken out of context....FREIGHT

    He does this all the time , it won't improve!
    Yet somehow no one bothers to clear up my mistake! All I hear are vague "you aren't taking the context into account". I don't see any discussion of what that context is and how it affects what is being said in any specific cases.

    That vague criticism is a cop-out.
  11. Cape Town
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    21 Sep '07 06:48
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Nope it's the other way round. You have an agenda in making the Bible say what you want it to so that you can pursue your mission of literalism and then dismiss christians for not being able to swallow their medicine. I know exactly what you are up to and will continue to challenge you. You are a game player.
    Well why don't you put it into context for the benefit of the rest of us and explain what it really does say. We don't all have secret decoder rings you know.
  12. Subscriberduecer
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    21 Sep '07 13:06
    Originally posted by wittywonka
    Sorry about the lack of clarification.

    Specifically, they would remain non-Christian for their entire lives.
    In Rev. 21:5 it says "Behold I make all things new". Some may intepret that to mean, that at some point even after death, souls sre given a second chance.
  13. Standard memberknightmeister
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    21 Sep '07 19:19
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Don't let them in your house or bid them Godspeed.

    2 John 10

    If they are Jews or Moslems, stop up their mouths.

    Titus 1:10-11

    If they are Gentiles, avoid them, lest you be friends with devils.

    1 Corinthians 10:20

    Anyway, why do you have non-Christian friends? You're not supposed to.

    Romans 16:17-18

    After all, we're all enemies of God.

    Matthew 12:30
    Don't let them in your house or bid them Godspeed.
    2 John 10...

    RESPONSE - Refers to those who take the word of christ and distort it , not unbelievers as such but deceivers who "go beyond " the words of christ.

    If they are Jews or Moslems, stop up their mouths.
    Titus 1:10-11

    RESPONSE- Is in the context of rebuking those who are indulging in false teaching and/or trying to make money out of it.


    If they are Gentiles, avoid them, lest you be friends with devils.
    1 Corinthians 10:20

    RESPONSE- Actually is refering to pagan practices of sacrifice to idols and general idolatry.

    Anyway, why do you have non-Christian friends? You're not supposed to.
    Romans 16:17-18

    RESPONSE- Again refering to those who deceive and try to cause divisions against the truth by their sophistry . It's simply a warning to steer clear of them and their teaching.



    After all, we're all enemies of God.
    Matthew 12:30

    RESPONSE- A much misunderstood passage. Jesus is pointing out that if we are not for him then we are against him. This has no bearing on whether someone is going to hell ultimately. Paul himself was an enemy of christ and so have many christians been.
  14. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    21 Sep '07 21:151 edit
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Don't let them in your house or bid them Godspeed.
    2 John 10...

    RESPONSE - Refers to those who take the word of christ and distort it , not unbelievers as such but deceivers who "go beyond " the words of christ.

    If they are Jews or Moslems, stop up their mouths.
    Titus 1:10-11

    RESPONSE- Is in the context of rebuking those who are indulgi to hell ultimately. Paul himself was an enemy of christ and so have many christians been.
    How do you know these are the correct interpretations in terms of context? I could easily make up any interpretation and then say the context shows my interpretation to be the correct one. That doesn't help without a discussion of the context itself.
  15. Standard memberknightmeister
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    22 Sep '07 08:191 edit
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    How do you know these are the correct interpretations in terms of context? I could easily make up any interpretation and then say the context shows my interpretation to be the correct one. That doesn't help without a discussion of the context itself.
    Well let's discuss the context then. You could start by reading some commentaries and /or reading the paragraphs before and after the quote itself. Think about the chapter itself. Take into account the charactor of the speaker/writer. Different translations help as well obviously. No-one can be absolutely sure of language because it's not an exact science but one can be beyond reasonable doubt a lot of the time.

    I'm quite confident that as we broaden out the discussion into context and meaning rather than literal interpretations that the meaning will move closer to my reading of it and away from yours simply because of the snapshot way you go about it. I'm not being pompous here i'm simply fighting truth's corner in the face of distortion. The words were intended to mean something by the person who said them , it's our job to get 'inside their minds' (and context) and figure that out as close as we can which is something you have shown little evidence of doing to me.
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