1. Standard memberRagnorak
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    12 Mar '05 23:57
    For Ivanhoe and the other catholics on this site,

    '"Never trust a woman who can add up faster than you", my da used to say'

    I'm just watching a documovie depicting the catholic Magdalene sisterhood in Ireland in the 1960s. For those interested, it is "Sinners". Another similarly set movie is "The Magdalene Sisters".

    My question is this...
    In both movies, and obviously in real life catholic Ireland in the 19th and 20th century (the last magdalene sisters, church-run institution was closed in 1996), girls who are pretty and attract attention of boys (even unwanted attention), girls who enjoy the company of boys, and girls who get pregnant out of wedlock (even if it was due to rape) were signed over to a nunnery, where they were locked into a type of prison (not allowed off the ground at any time, not allowed unsupervised contact with males (unless he was a catholic priest), told when to eat, told when to sleep, told when to wake, banned from talking to each other) worked up to 15 hours a day for no wage for the profit of the nunnery. If a girl was locked up (or saved, depending on your view point) because she got pregnant out of wedlock, the child was automatically signed over (not by the mother) for adoption. Beatings and rape of girls (and boys in the reformatory homes) by priests was regular. The only learning that the girls got was that written in the bible (the boys at least were taught other things). Through this teaching of mostly ignorance, the priests were able to convince the poor raped children that the horrible feelings they felt at the act were their own fault. The girls were taught that sex and childbirth were 'the wages of sin' (according to "Sinners"😉, evil, disgusting acts. Should the abused child complain to authorities, they were normally signed over to mental institutions where they would, more often than not, spend the rest of their lives drugged up to the gills in a padded cell. If even higher levels of authority caught wind of this complete and utter corruption, the perpetrators were merely moved and incidents hidden up. The girls of the Magdalene Sisterhood could not leave this institution of their own free will for life. They could be released by a member of family OR a man. At least upon reaching adulthood, the boys could release themselves. Should they escape, they would be hunted by the police as criminals and returned to the institution for punishment. Youths driven to suicide weren't allowed a proper funeral on sacred ground and were denied heaven for ever (a big deal to a girl brought up with only catholic teachings).

    My question to all catholics on the site (and Ivanhoe especially, as the only strongly catholic user I know on here) is to choose from the following:

    1) The catholic church of the time were correct and only acting as the catholic church says you should act. These institutions should still exist.
    2) This was reprehensible behaviour by The Magdalene Sisters and The Christian Brothers (and other catholic orders at the time, including (ironically) The Sisters of Mercy). They were not teaching the catholic word, or behaving as catholics should ever act.
    3) The actions of the orders at the time were disgusting, but they were interpreting the catholic teachings as they should have been interpreted at the time. The catholic teachings are evolutionary and must be adapted as society evolves.
    4) None of the above (please explain...)

    This type of behaviour and abuse of power is one of the main reasons that I view catholicism and christianity in complete and utter contempt. I haven't been directly affected by it, but people I know have been, and until I have been explained how these atrocities came to be (and came to be covered up), I will never hold catholicism or christianity in anything but contempt. Your comments are appreciated.

    D
  2. Felicific Forest
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    13 Mar '05 00:51
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    For Ivanhoe and the other catholics on this site,

    '"Never trust a woman who can add up faster than you", my da used to say'

    I'm just watching a documovie depicting the catholic Magdalene sisterhood in Ireland in the 1960s. For those interested, it is "Sinners". Another similarly set movie is "The Magdalene Sisters".

    My question is this... ...[text shortened]... hold catholicism or christianity in anything but contempt. Your comments are appreciated.

    D

    I will assume that the films you saw were objective accounts of the events that took place in those days.

    Which of the events you described in your posts, which of the treatments you described belong to the teachings of the Roman-Catholic Church in particular or to the teachings of Jesus Christ in general ?
  3. Hmmm . . .
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    13 Mar '05 01:00
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    For Ivanhoe and the other catholics on this site,

    '"Never trust a woman who can add up faster than you", my da used to say'

    I'm just watching a documovie depicting the catholic Magdalene sisterhood in Ireland in the 1960s. For those interested, it is "Sinners". Another similarly set movie is "The Magdalene Sisters".

    My question is this... ...[text shortened]... hold catholicism or christianity in anything but contempt. Your comments are appreciated.

    D
    This type of behaviour and abuse of power is one of the main reasons that I view catholicism and christianity in complete and utter contempt.

    “Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” Lord Acton.

    This applies to any powerful institution, church (Roman Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox) included. In such corrupt cases, the church (or other institution) is not necessarily representing the ideals upon which it was founded. Some scholars in recent decades have used the terms “Christendom” to apply strictly to the institutions, and “Christianity” to apply to the underlying religious/spiritual ideals.

    For example, in the U.S., slavery was legal until the 1860s; women were not given suffrage until 1926. Do these corruptions condemn democracy, or simply the institutional government of the U.S. and those who were in power who paid lip-service to the ideals, yet participated in the corruption of them?

    (I am not a Catholic, however, so I can't address the part of your post aimed directly at Roman Catholics.)
  4. Standard memberDarfius
    The Apologist
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    13 Mar '05 16:15
    This type of behaviour and abuse of power is one of the main reasons that I view catholicism and christianity in complete and utter contempt. I haven't been directly affected by it, but people I know have been, and until I have been explained how these atrocities came to be (and came to be covered up), I will never hold catholicism or christianity in anything but contempt. Your comments are appreciated.

    I would appreciate it if you just reserved your contempt for the Catholics. Jesus Christ still has much to offer you.

  5. England
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    14 Mar '05 12:49
    to understand the thinking you would have had to know the times, as we can judge from the veiw point of now. the catholic church at that time was very very strict and viewed other christian faiths as heresy. which lasted a long time (sadly) . From my understanding your points are true but blinkerd as im not sure how many girls this happened to but familys also agreed to this for the sake of there family name (not there surname). I will say im a Anglican and some of our history is written in stupidity, but judgement is for god and would you like this on your CV to god.
  6. London
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    15 Mar '05 13:13
    Originally posted by vistesd
    [b]This type of behaviour and abuse of power is one of the main reasons that I view catholicism and christianity in complete and utter contempt.

    “Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” Lord Acton.

    This applies to any powerful institution, church (Roman Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox) included. In such corrupt cases, t ...[text shortened]... tholic, however, so I can't address the part of your post aimed directly at Roman Catholics.)
    [/b]
    Gets my rec.

    If I had to choose, I would choose (2).
  7. Standard memberslimjim
    Death from Above
    El Paso, TX
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    15 Mar '05 23:38
    Originally posted by Darfius
    [b]This type of behaviour and abuse of power is one of the main reasons that I view catholicism and christianity in complete and utter contempt. I haven't been directly affected by it, but people I know have been, and until I have been explained how these atrocities came to be (and came to be covered up), I will never hold catholicism or christianity in an ...[text shortened]... ou just reserved your contempt for the Catholics. Jesus Christ still has much to offer you.

    Spoken like a true Christian. You are a joke and a disgrace to true Christians who are tolerant. I guess the Methodists are heathens also right?
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