Originally posted by galveston75 Jehovah made all the creatures that were upon the earth and after he created them all he said "it was good".
But satan knew he was not going to be able to come face to face with Adam and Eve to make them turn against God. They would probably not have gone for that direct approach.
Satan being the sly and wicked being he had made himself from his own ...[text shortened]... completely designed by satan who is still using lies and trickery to mislead most humans today.
Your statement is in direct contradiction with this one from Isaiah:
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:5-7 KJV)
God creates evil.
Are you doubting the prophet Isaiah?
Originally posted by vistesd Well said. A further issue is the presumption (when it is the presumption) that everything is to be taken literally/factually/historistically. I think that a literary analysis of biblical texts deconstructs such a notion more often than not (especially, but not limited to, the case of the Hebrew scriptures.) Such “literality” is a hermeneutival presumption (one that seems to be often assumed also by “secular” commentators).
Thanks. It would be nice one day to start a thread on the origins of the Bible and its development through the centuries Maybe I might do it one day but I have to read up more on that topic.
While I believe that the Bible is Gods word I cannot for one minute in the light of the many [apparent] contradictions and discrepancies between versions and translations, claim that everything last detail in it is to be trusted as the truth.
Originally posted by josephw [b]"What if Satan has corrupted your religious text books through time (via mankind) in order to keep you from the truth about God's teachings?"
Psalm 119:89
For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
Psalm 12:6,7
The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt ke ...[text shortened]... If I were any of you that might attempt to suggest that God's Word is corrupt, I would quit now.
God's word is corrupt. The god of the bible is a sham who doesn't follow his own rules.
Have you ever read "Letters from the Earth" by Mark Twain? He refutes every part of christian religion to such a degree that if anybody reads this book and still believes in the bible then they are a deluded bible sycophant, not to mention a complete ignoramus.
Originally posted by Agerg How Satan get into the garden? and how did your all-seeing, all-knowing, and all-doing god not notice this?
Of course he noticed it, but you are assuming a level of control typical of tyrants. You are implying God should have squelched the free will he allows, but you can't have it both ways... either God is a tyrant who won't allow anything to disturb his plan, or he allows the conditions he created to play themselves out. It doesn't mean he doesn't intervene whenever it's needed or appropriate, but it's a bit of a stretch to think he would contradict himself by not allowing the free will he allows.
Originally posted by lemon lime Of course he noticed it, but you are assuming a level of control typical of tyrants. You are implying God should have squelched the free will he allows, but you can't have it both ways... either God is a tyrant who won't allow anything to disturb his plan, or he allows the conditions he created to play themselves out. It doesn't mean he doesn't intervene ...[text shortened]... a bit of a stretch to think he would contradict himself by not allowing the free will he allows.
Well he could have allowed for free-will but neglected to introduce a naughty talking serpent into the garden. Your god must have known he'd be up to no good, and would try to trick Adam & Eve. As such, as per my first response to checkbaiter, we cannot trust that your god thoroughly thinks things through (despite knowing everything!)
Originally posted by Agerg Well he could have allowed for free-will but neglected to introduce a naughty talking serpent into the garden. Your god must have known he'd be up to no good, and would try to trick Adam & Eve. As such, as per my first response to checkbaiter, we cannot trust that your god thoroughly thinks things through (despite knowing everything!)
Since you apparently have thought everything through, then perhaps the God you don't believe exists would be willing to hear your suggestions. After all, just because he's omniscient it doesn't mean he knows everything. 🙄
It's easy to find problems with the internal consistency and logic of the Bible if you interject your own assumptions and wishful thinking into the mix.
Originally posted by lemon lime Since you apparently have thought everything through, then perhaps the God you don't believe exists would be willing to hear your suggestions. After all, just because he's omniscient it doesn't mean he knows everything. 🙄
It's easy to find problems with the internal consistency and logic of the Bible if you interject your own assumptions and wishful thinking into the mix.
What? Is my sarcasm meter broken or did you basically just say that the definition of a word means other than the stated definition?
Originally posted by lemon lime Since you apparently have thought everything through, then perhaps the God you don't believe exists would be willing to hear your suggestions. After all, just because he's omniscient it doesn't mean he knows everything. 🙄
It's easy to find problems with the internal consistency and logic of the Bible if you interject your own assumptions and wishful thinking into the mix.
A frew issues...
First, as noted by MISTER-CHESS "omniscient" does indeed mean knows everything http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omniscience
Secondly, knowing everything is redundant anyway...it is a berk for introducing its arch-nemesis Satan (in the guise of a talking serpent) into a garden populated with a magic tree not to be eaten from, and not anticipating it would talk Adam and Eve into eating from it 😵
Third, I and other atheists tend to think things through much better than this character you refer to as God.
Originally posted by MISTER CHESS What? Is my sarcasm meter broken or did you basically just say that the definition of a word means other than the stated definition?
Was that over the top... did I break your sarcasm meter? I've already pointed out the contradiction in his argument, but he still wants to run with it. What else is there to say?
Originally posted by lemon lime Was that over the top... did I break your sarcasm meter? I've already pointed out the contradiction in his argument, but he still wants to run with it. What else is there to say?
Originally posted by Agerg How Satan get into the garden? and how did your all-seeing, all-knowing, and all-doing god not notice this?
Satan could go where ever he wanted. He was an angel, a spirit being just as all angels were. In fact the bible suggest that he was an angel of high ranking and was given special privleges in connection the earth.
Also where do you get the idea that God did not know about this, and more importantly if he did why didn't he stop it and just destroy satan and maybe even Adam & Eve and just start all over? He could have but why didn't he? What was the challenge and accusations that satan made about God that God just couldn't destroy it all and start over?
Originally posted by lemon lime Of course he noticed it, but you are assuming a level of control typical of tyrants. You are implying God should have squelched the free will he allows, but you can't have it both ways... either God is a tyrant who won't allow anything to disturb his plan, or he allows the conditions he created to play themselves out. It doesn't mean he doesn't intervene ...[text shortened]... a bit of a stretch to think he would contradict himself by not allowing the free will he allows.
Originally posted by lemon lime Was that over the top... did I break your sarcasm meter? I've already pointed out the contradiction in his argument, but he still wants to run with it. What else is there to say?
Please read my follow up post and point out exactly where lies the contradiction.
Originally posted by lemon lime Of course he noticed it, but you are assuming a level of control typical of tyrants. You are implying God should have squelched the free will he allows, but you can't have it both ways... either God is a tyrant who won't allow anything to disturb his plan, or he allows the conditions he created to play themselves out. It doesn't mean he doesn't intervene ...[text shortened]... a bit of a stretch to think he would contradict himself by not allowing the free will he allows.
Stopping an evil act does not suppress free will.
Nor is it necessary to do evil things to prove you have free will.
While we're on the subject of omniscience, why does God come back and ask "Why do you cover yourselves with fig leaves? Have you eaten of the bad tree?" Were those rhetorical questions?
Edit: and it occurs to me - what kind of 'tyrant' lets the evil people loose among society? Don't we imprison criminals precisely because of their evil tendencies? At least most earthly tyrants have the decency to suppress criminals that don't serve their interests.
Originally posted by Rajk999 What Galveston posted is straight out of the JW handbook for adults. Are you saying that the JWs have the mentality of 6 yr olds?
A valid question to all organized religion
25 Sep '13 00:482 edits
Back to Top