1. chicago
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    27 Oct '05 16:50
    choice or life?
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    27 Oct '05 17:03
    why do you post this in the spirituality forum???

    Anyway, I used to be in favour of abortion but I was conviced this is not right. Now this is how I see it:
    Your life starts when your mothers egg is vurtilized by your fathers sperm so from this point you can die/be killed/murdered. Maybe its hard to grasp that you where once a tiny little fetus that could not even think, but it was you nonetheless.

    Of course you could say:
    But I couldn't think when I was a fetus so I could not object to my abortion yet, so it must be ok.
    This is false because you cant think properly when your asleep or in a coma but we all agree that it is wrong to kill a sleeping man or a man in coma.
    I use this example because in the case of the sleeping man/man in coma, we all feel the need to stand up for his rights when someone tries to kill him.
    There is no difference between the sleeping man/ man in coma, and the fetus in that they are all unconcious and cant yet use reason, or stand up for themselves.

    Then you could say:
    But the fetus doesn't look like a human, I find it hard to stand up for such a small creature that looks nothing like a sleeping man.
    -I understand this, but you must agree with me that the elephant man does not look much like a human either but this is no reason to kill him.

    Maybe you could now say:
    Those are all very good arguments and I understand them all but im still not yet sure about the abortion matter.
    -I understand this, but when your unsure you should always take the safe road, and the safe road in this case does not lead to any deaths.

    There really is no problem, if a woman does not want children she can choose:
    - Not to have sex
    - Have herself sterilised
    - Make the guy wear a condom and/or take a pill herself.

    This way the woman had her choice when she decided to have sex and her child can have his/her choice when he grows up and has developed mental capacity. If he does not like life this is no problem because he can make the CHOICE to have euthanasia.

    Best regards,

    Maarten
  3. chicago
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    27 Oct '05 17:09
    Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
    why do you post this in the spirituality forum???

    Anyway, I used to be in favour of abortion but I was conviced this is not right. Now this is how I see it:
    Your life starts when your mothers egg is vurtilized by your fathers sperm so from this point you can die/be killed/murdered. Maybe its hard to grasp that you where once a tiny little fet ...[text shortened]... his is no problem because he can make the CHOICE to have euthanasia.

    Best regards,

    Maarten
    the reason i posted it on this forum is because i posted it on the general and i asked if there were any prolifers on this site and they told me to come to this forum....
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    27 Oct '05 17:103 edits
    Originally posted by princessleah
    the reason i posted it on this forum is because i posted it on the general and i asked if there were any prolifers on this site and they told me to come to this forum....
    So what does killing babies have to do with spirituality???

    Is it done as a sacrifice to please the gods?🙂
  5. chicago
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    27 Oct '05 17:15
    Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
    So what does killing babies have to do with spirituality???

    Is it done as a sacrifice to please the gods?🙂
    because God created them
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    27 Oct '05 17:26
    Originally posted by princessleah
    because God created them
    but who created god?
  7. chicago
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    27 Oct '05 17:31
    Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
    but who created god?
    God is was and always will be , he was always here
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    27 Oct '05 17:371 edit
    Originally posted by princessleah
    God is was and always will be , he was always here
    Is god eternal?
    Then why do you need a creator if things can be eternal?

    See, a god does not explain anything.
  9. Standard membertelerion
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    27 Oct '05 17:381 edit
    Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
    why do you post this in the spirituality forum???

    Anyway, I used to be in favour of abortion but I was conviced this is not right. Now this is how I see it:
    Your life starts when your mothers egg is vurtilized by your fathers sperm so from this point you can die/be killed/murdered. Maybe its hard to grasp that you where once a tiny little fet ...[text shortened]... his is no problem because he can make the CHOICE to have euthanasia.

    Best regards,

    Maarten
    I support the right for a woman to have an abortion, and not for any one of the reasons you listed.

    I suggest going back to one of the major discussions of abortion on this board. I haven't been able to find the thread though. Anybody?
  10. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    27 Oct '05 17:41
    Originally posted by princessleah
    choice or life?
    I believe abortion is very often ethical. I come to this conclusion from a hedonistic utilitirian perspective. Suffering will not be increased overall if abortion occurs in many or most situations.
  11. Standard memberHalitose
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    27 Oct '05 17:43
    Originally posted by princessleah
    choice or life?
    IMO life starts at conception. From the moment you have a zygote, genetically its another human and worthy of life. Its an immature human and only needs time and nutrition to develop into a fully functioning and self-aware individual.
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    27 Oct '05 17:452 edits
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    I believe abortion is very often ethical. I come to this conclusion from a hedonistic utilitirian perspective. Suffering will not be increased overall if abortion occurs in many or most situations.
    According to that reason its ok if I kill you in your sleep! ...no increased overal suffering.

    Or shoot you from behind. (you wont even notice this!)
  13. Standard memberHalitose
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    27 Oct '05 17:49
    Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
    but who created god?
    Why would he need a cause? You rightly assume that something with a beginning needs a cause. Did God have a beginning? He always was. Just like you assume 1+1 was always 2 and doesn't need a cause for it to be so.
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    27 Oct '05 17:52
    Originally posted by Halitose
    Why would he need a cause? You rightly assume that something with a beginning needs a cause. Did God have a beginning? He always was. Just like you assume 1+1 was always 2 and doesn't need a cause for it to be so.
    Yes but if god does not need a cause you dont need one either.
  15. Shetland Primary
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    27 Oct '05 18:16
    Originally posted by LordOfTheChessboard
    Yes but if god does not need a cause you dont need one either.
    The difference is that he and you and me are not eternal, thus we need a cause.
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