Abundant Life

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
Science has not provided us with limitless information about the things that you and I cannot see with our eyes.

No one claims that it has.

Originally posted by FMF
Well Muslims do not subscribe to the claims you make about Jesus, so the discrepancy is neither here nor there. What about Mohammed being visited by the Arch-angel Gabriel in a cave? Why do you deny it... or do you accept it?

What I am pointing is that if Mohammad gave all of the Quran, then either Mohammad is considered lying or Jesus is considered lying. Jesus did not approve of adultery. Is it true that if 3 male Muslim witnesses see adultery, then they can kill the adulterer?

In heaven there is no marriage, nor adultery. Therefore, both Mohammad and Jesus will not be right at the same time.

The hope of all male Muslims is for a certain amount of virgins. But Jesus of the bible said there is neither marriage nor the giving of marriage in heaven. Both teachers are not right at the same time.


King James Version
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Matthew 22: 29, 30
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
So why is it so hard to believe in an existence of things that are spiritual which are not seen with our eyes, nor experienced with our 4 other human senses.

Well, as far as the human spirit in concerned, I do think things "exist" which are "not seen with our eyes, nor experienced with our 4 other human senses". This does not justify or substantiate your assertion-cum-question: "Jesus died for all people and provided a way for abundant life. So, why would anyone deny what is NOT proven to be wrong by any human being?" The burden of proof is yours. If you can persuade people to agree with you through sheer sincerity and certainty, then good for you.

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
Just because we don't perceive with our brains doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Our brains are the only thing that we "perceive" with.

FMF and Kingonpoint:

1) Science has not provided us with limitless information about the things that you and I cannot see with our eyes.

2) No one claims that it has.

My point is. . . how can we have proof that there is no spiritual existence just because we don't see it with our eyes. Yet, there are who-knows-how many natural existences in our human experience that we don't see. If we don't see all the natural things, how can we say that there are no spiritual things to see.

FMF Typed:

Our brains are the only thing that we "perceive" with.
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Our eyes do not disprove the existence of something just because we don't see it. The lack of seeing doesn't make the window, non-existent.

Likewise, a bird can get hurt or be killed by flying into a window, apparently because it doesn't see the window or doesn't understand it.

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
What I am pointing is that if Mohammad gave all of the Quran, then either Mohammad is considered lying or Jesus is considered lying. Jesus did not approve of adultery. Is it true that if 3 male Muslim witnesses see adultery, then they can kill the adulterer?

Well I am neither a Muslim or a Christian. And I have not characterized either Mohammed or Jesus as "lying". It has been my lifelong observation that almost all Muslims or Christians hold and exercise their different faiths in earnest and honestly.

FMF,
When is comes to our spiritual life, we cannot afford to be wrong. Our being wrong, in that case, is an eternal wrong. Why take a chance at being wrong on something that is eternal?

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
Our eyes do not disprove the existence of something just because we don't see it.

The "existence of something" nevertheless needs evidence otherwise it is merely "faith" and "faith" cannot create the "existence of something". What you have with "faith" is something in your imagination and what is the point of asking people to deny or not deny the existence of something in your imagination?

FMF,
I need to leave McDonalds. What I was wanting to post is the following:

The lack of seeing doesn't make a window, non-existent. So, a bird can get hurt or be killed by flying into a window, apparently because it doesn't see the window or doesn't understand it.

Originally posted by KingOnPoint

When is comes to our spiritual life, we cannot afford to be wrong.

You should do your best to not be "wrong" then.

Why take a chance at being wrong on something that is eternal?

Bearing in mind that I quite simply do not believe the things you believe about Jesus and your God figure, what do you suggest I do?

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
The lack of seeing doesn't make a window, non-existent. So, a bird can get hurt or be killed by flying into a window, apparently because it doesn't see the window or doesn't understand it.

In what way does this relate to your assertion that "Jesus died for all people and provided a way for abundant life"?

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
If we don't see all the natural things, how can we say that there are no spiritual things to see.

People can say there are no spiritual things to see, if they want, and others can say there are spiritual things to see. Ultimately, which side you come down on is going to be a matter of subjectivity. I say there are spiritual things "to see" but I recognize that this is a subjective view on my part and I will not attempt to actually replace your subjectivity with mine. If you offer me reasons to believe the same spiritual things that you claim you see, then I will say so.

FMF Typed:
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This is one thing. But it is another thing altogether to claim the evidence you find substantiates the claims you make about God and Jesus.
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Do you know of any historically scientific proofs which have disproved what historical claims the scriptures have claimed? How many times have there been when historical science backed up the historical claims of scripture after first there not being historical data to validate the scriptures' claims?

FMF Typed:

It has been my lifelong observation that almost all Muslims or Christians hold and exercise their different faiths in earnest and honestly.
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It will not be all our "earnestnesses" that lead to our eternal lives. Both Muslims and Christians cannot be right at the same time about eternal life.