Originally posted by KingOnPoint Do you know of any historically scientific proofs which have disproved what historical claims the scriptures have claimed?
I have seen no evidence whatsoever that supports the claims made using the Bible pertaining to the divinity of Jesus and the nature of the Hebrew/Christian God figure ~ except for the content of the Bible itself.
The "existence of something" nevertheless needs evidence otherwise it is merely "faith" and "faith" cannot create the "existence of something".
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Again, there are natural things in our existence which we do not see. Not seeing them does not invalidate their existences.
Originally posted by KingOnPoint It will not be all our "earnestnesses" that lead to our eternal lives. Both Muslims and Christians cannot be right at the same time about eternal life.
I have no reason to differentiate between the competing claims about a supposed "eternal life" and divine instructions about life on earth made by Muslims and Christians except in terms of prisms such as anthropology, psychology and philosophy.
Your preference for Christianity over Islam is not "evidence" of anything except your personal religious beliefs.
Originally posted by KingOnPoint Again, there are natural things in our existence which we do not see. Not seeing them does not invalidate their existences.
Again, I say there are spiritual things "to see" but I recognize that this is a subjective view on my part and I will not attempt to actually replace your subjectivity [which contends that Jesus died for all people and provided a way for abundant life] with mine [which see no reason to believe that which contends that Jesus "died for all people and provided a way for abundant life".]
Why not see scientists as God's creatures, exercising their God given talents, and their God given natural curiosity and determination, to push the knowledge of humanity
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Well, one reason is that if men substitute unproven science for Godly claims, then they are against God to start with. They should not automatically use unproved/undemonstrated science to disagree with what is Godly.
FMF typed:
Why expect all these brilliant, talented, inquisitive humans to simply settle for what you just so happened to have settled for?
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They don't have to believe me. But, for one thing, science has not proved their asserted assumptions and has not disproved the scriptures claims.
Originally posted by FMF I am saying that there is abundant evidence that we die. What evidence do you have that our corpses decomposing or being burnt is followed by an "afterlife"?
You and I can determine that people are humanly/physically dead by our senses, but our senses never really can tell what gives a physical human being life to begin with. Do you assume that our 5 senses can tell how a human being "lives" physically? What if there is something that we don't even experience that really is "the reason" why a human has physical life? Can our 5 senses disprove that there is a hidden reason for someone's human life?
1) Science has not provided us with limitless information about the things that you and I cannot see with our eyes.
FMF response:
No one claims that it has.
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Science claims to know the answers how the the universe came about and how humans came about. If you don't believe that, then why do they teach these beliefs in schools and elsewhere?
This does not justify or substantiate your assertion-cum-question: "Jesus died for all people and provided a way for abundant life. So, why would anyone deny what is NOT proven to be wrong by any human being?" The burden of proof is yours.
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FMF,
The burden of proof is not "mine." The burden of proof is on all of the individual members of humanity together for each individual's sake.
Your belief is on you. I don't have to make you believe. I will not be punished for your unbelief if I at least tell you the right belief. My loss of benefit can come if I don't warn you. After I warn you, there can come a point where I have no more responsibility.
For your sake, your belief is on you. You owe it to yourself, to seek the truth.
Originally posted by KingOnPoint I don't have to make you believe. I will not be punished for your unbelief if I at least tell you the right belief. My loss of benefit can come if I don't warn you. After I warn you, there can come a point where I have no more responsibility.
I am pleased for you if you now feel you can go around thinking that you won't be punished.
The lack of seeing doesn't make a window, non-existent. So, a bird can get hurt or be killed by flying into a window, apparently because it doesn't see the window or doesn't understand it.
FMF Typed:
In what way does this relate to your assertion that "Jesus died for all people and provided a way for abundant life"?
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Just as there are natural things that exist even though we don't see experience them with our brains, there can easily be spiritual things that exist which our brains do not experience. It doesn't take much faith to believe what we do experience. But it does take faith to believe what we don't experience.
However, it isn't faith that validates something's existence. Nor is it unbelief which invalidates something's existence. Natural things exist in spite of our brain's experiences. To discover the hidden thing by experiencing it does not make it existent. It exists regardless of our experience.
This is true in the natural world. So, why deny that it can easily be true for the spiritual world.
You and I have the ability to experience the natural world and make sense of it when we can use our 5 senses and brains. However, what about a blind person or a person blind and deaf? There blindness and deafness doesn't mean there is nothing to see and hear.
Originally posted by KingOnPoint What if there is something that we don't even experience that really is "the reason" why a human has physical life? Can our 5 senses disprove that there is a hidden reason for someone's human life?
You sincerely believe there is some sort of burden on me to disprove the "hidden reason for someone's human life" that you happen to have in your imagination?
Just as there are natural things that exist even though we don't see experience them with our brains, there can easily be spiritual things that exist which our brains do not experience. It doesn't take much faith to believe what we do experience. But it does take faith to believe what we don't experience.
However, it isn't faith that validates something's existence. Nor is it unbelief which invalidates something's existence. Natural things exist in spite of our brain's experiences. To discover the hidden thing by experiencing it does not make it existent. It exists regardless of our experience.
This is true in the natural world. So, why deny that it can easily be true for the spiritual world.
You and I have the ability to experience the natural world and make sense of it when we can use our 5 senses and brains. However, what about a blind person or a person blind and deaf? There blindness and deafness doesn't mean there is nothing to see and hear.
Once again, in what way does this relate to your assertion that "Jesus died for all people and provided a way for abundant life"?
FMF,
When education refuses to teach creation and substitutes unproved science as the educated beliefs for the universe and its inhabitants, then it means that the generally accepted way of "educated" people is to deny God and even not want God in their lives.
If you, and I, and the "educated" people refuse God, why should He accept us?
13 Nov '14 04:51
Abundant Life
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