Adieu

The ignorant thinking in sonhouse's thread ("A new religion, IF THERE WAS A GOD:" ) made me unable to resist posting in it.

But I now see that all of the atheists in this forum who have made their beds and now lie in them are truly blind to the 'wheels within wheels' thinking that dominates this forum now. And you all consider yourselves "above the fray" and that anyone can come in here and state their case and they'll be listened to and intelligent discourse will abound. Not likely. There's just too much hate. Hatred of God and those who believe. But not enough guts to admit it.

It's right and correct that you atheists have kept the Science forum pure and incorrigible from wrong-thinking people who claim to have the secrets of the universe in their hands.

It's also absolutely too bad that the theists in this forum have miserably failed at doing the same thing here in this forum. There is so little illumination of the truth in this forum now that I see no sense in continuing. Congratulations, atheists. This forum is now yours as well. You've managed to make it a place where I cannot state my beliefs any longer without having them shouted down, without having my faith dragged through the virtual mud of derision and disrespect. You've engineered a brilliant win. Not because you're right, oh no. But because your voices are vastly more numerous than mine and I cannot keep up.

I had decided to take a break from this forum because I felt I was becoming too emotionally angry and distraught every time someone crapped all over my beliefs, and perhaps because I subconsciously felt this forum slipping away from us. The theists who remain, carry on as you will. I cannot blunt your enthusiasm, nor should I. It's not that my faith has failed me. It's that I have failed my faith. I no longer have the will to fight back every day against such overwhelming odds. I give my best try and it has as much impact as a burp in a hurricane. This forum is no longer healthy for me, and as such, my enjoyment of this site has been reduced. But I cannot remain here in the current environment. I can't take the hate anymore.

I hope some here eventually find their way to God (or back to God, as the case may be). I also hope that the few believers who remain are not turned away from the truth by this toxic environment. Yes, I'm leaving, and no, I don't expect I'll be coming back. It's long past time for me to knock the dust of this place off my sandals and continue on down the road. And yes, I know I'll be derided for it and even vilified by some, probably even more will just laugh at me and say "Good riddance!"

Myself, I can only say, with all sincerity, "Adieu".

Originally posted by Suzianne
The ignorant thinking in sonhouse's thread ("A new religion, IF THERE WAS A GOD:" ) made me unable to resist posting in it.

But I now see that all of the atheists in this forum who have made their beds and now lie in them are truly blind to the 'wheels within wheels' thinking that dominates this forum now. And you all consider yourselves "above the fray ...[text shortened]... at me and say "Good riddance!"

Myself, I can only say, with all sincerity, "Adieu".

It's a shame you're leaving, you are one of the more (and dare I say few) interesting theists on this forum.

Suzianne - it's a forum for discussion.

If you do not want to discuss (and you have ignored many questions
from me including a very polite PM on a question that was puzzling me)
then why be here?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Suzianne - it's a forum for discussion.

If you do not want to discuss (and you have ignored many questions
from me including a very polite PM on a question that was puzzling me)
then why be here?

I believe the point she was making is that she came to the Spirituality Forum expecting to discuss spirituality in love, not in the hateful way that sonhouse and all atheists on here do. The attitude of most all the posters has become adversarial and results in too many ad hominem attacks even from Christians like me. The hatred espoused here has grown to more than she is willing to tolerate and she would rather withdraw from the discussion than turn into one of the haters herself.

She didn't say so in this post, but she is also not happy with the way I respond to anyone that I disagree with. Because of many of my posts against Islam, she also believes I hate Muslims and that is not a good attitude for a Christian to have.

Originally posted by Suzianne
The ignorant thinking in sonhouse's thread ("A new religion, IF THERE WAS A GOD:" ) made me unable to resist posting in it.

But I now see that all of the atheists in this forum who have made their beds and now lie in them are truly blind to the 'wheels within wheels' thinking that dominates this forum now. And you all consider yourselves "above the fray ...[text shortened]... at me and say "Good riddance!"

Myself, I can only say, with all sincerity, "Adieu".

The purpose of the science forum is for questions about science. It is not the forum for atheists, neither is this the forum for believers only, that is not where the dichotomy lies. The problem for the science forum was it was becoming dominated by these stupid threads about creationism, which really weren't appropriate to a forum on science. Questioning the existence of God in a Spirituality forum on the other hand is not ridiculous. The question is one of philosophy and belief, and it is not a question science can help us with. The threads that tend to be argumentative here are the ones where rigid viewpoints which refuse to accept the belief systems of others are raised. While I agree that there's a large amount of disrespect, I do not think it is universal from both sides and I don't think you should get upset by it. After all this is just a forum on a chess site.

Originally posted by Suzianne
The ignorant thinking in sonhouse's thread ("A new religion, IF THERE WAS A GOD:" ) made me unable to resist posting in it.

But I now see that all of the atheists in this forum who have made their beds and now lie in them are truly blind to the 'wheels within wheels' thinking that dominates this forum now. And you all consider yourselves "above the fray ...[text shortened]... at me and say "Good riddance!"

Myself, I can only say, with all sincerity, "Adieu".

Are you kidding? That thread is actually quite civil. The ONLY negativity in sonhouse's thread comes from you, and your unchrist-like use of the word "bitching". And this is even though no one said anything to you or regarding you.

Originally posted by DeepThought
The purpose of the science forum is for questions about science. It is not the forum for atheists, neither is this the forum for believers only, that is not where the dichotomy lies. The problem for the science forum was it was becoming dominated by these stupid threads about creationism, which really weren't appropriate to a forum on science. Questio ...[text shortened]... s and I don't think you should get upset by it. After all this is just a forum on a chess site.

Why then would you think questioning the existence of evolution and billons of years in the Science Forum is ridiculous? Are you now admitting that evolution is not science?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Why then would you think questioning the existence of evolution and billons of years in the Science Forum is ridiculous? Are you now admitting that evolution is not science?

The threads weren't really about evolution they were about creationism, although they had some interest for a while. I wouldn't have known about the drosophila result - or even that drosophila was the scientific name for fruit flies - without them. The problem was the way they dominated the forums.

Originally posted by DeepThought
The threads weren't really about evolution they were about creationism, although they had some interest for a while. I wouldn't have known about the drosophila result - or even that drosophila was the scientific name for fruit flies - without them. The problem was the way they dominated the forums.

Others turned the discussion into creationism. I began with the problems with evolution.

Originally posted by Suzianne
The ignorant thinking in sonhouse's thread ("A new religion, IF THERE WAS A GOD:" ) made me unable to resist posting in it.

But I now see that all of the atheists in this forum who have made their beds and now lie in them are truly blind to the 'wheels within wheels' thinking that dominates this forum now. And you all consider yourselves "above the fray ...[text shortened]... at me and say "Good riddance!"

Myself, I can only say, with all sincerity, "Adieu".

[Part of] The problem is you want your cake and to eat it.

You want your beliefs to be 'respected' and not to be unchallenged,
while you tell everyone who doesn't hold your beliefs that in a "coming
soon to a world near you" apocalypse they will all be killed by your god
for not believing in and worshipping your god. And you believe that we
will have deserved that fate.

You tell us we should repent or die... And then expect us to respect your
beliefs...

Hypocrite much.


If you don't enjoy, are getting upset by, debating your beliefs then this is
not the place for you.

But neither is any other place where religious beliefs are debated.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Others turned the discussion into creationism. I began with the problems with evolution.

Oh give it a rest will you, are you incapable of talking about anything else?

Originally posted by Suzianne
The ignorant thinking in sonhouse's thread ("A new religion, IF THERE WAS A GOD:" ) made me unable to resist posting in it.

But I now see that all of the atheists in this forum who have made their beds and now lie in them are truly blind to the 'wheels within wheels' thinking that dominates this forum now. And you all consider yourselves "above the fray ...[text shortened]... at me and say "Good riddance!"

Myself, I can only say, with all sincerity, "Adieu".

This isn't for Suzianne as I wish her well in departing and don't want or expect a response from her.

I believe that among the theists, she was relatively moderate, and it is too bad for the forum that the theists and non-theists have one less example that there are moderate theist positions to be taken.

The nature of forums that confront disagreements is that the relative moderates on both sides are driven to leave or simply ignored by those who are more extreme proponents of their side. After all, the moderates are at best intellectually interesting, but the extremists are emotionally infuriating. 🙂

It might have helped people think about their own contribution to her departure, if she had placed the non-theists here along a spectrum of haters, if there is a spectrum in her mind. In lieu of that, I take her reaction to be an example of that characteristic of forums that rewards the extreme and drives out the relatively moderate.

She says, "You've engineered a brilliant win. Not because you're right, oh no. But because your voices are vastly more numerous than mine and I cannot keep up."

Just an observation to end with: One reason she may have felt more outnumbered is that many of the most vocal theists here do not agree with her moderate views.

Originally posted by JS357
This isn't for Suzianne as I wish her well in departing and don't want or expect a response from her.

I believe that among the theists, she was relatively moderate, and it is too bad for the forum that the theists and non-theists have one less example that there are moderate theist positions to be taken.

The nature of forums that confront disagreements ...[text shortened]... re outnumbered is that many of the most vocal theists here do not agree with her moderate views.

Well, googlefudge does not seem to agree that suzianne was moderate. He just calls her a hypocrite.

Originally posted by Suzianne
The ignorant thinking in sonhouse's thread ("A new religion, IF THERE WAS A GOD:" ) made me unable to resist posting in it.

But I now see that all of the atheists in this forum who have made their beds and now lie in them are truly blind to the 'wheels within wheels' thinking that dominates this forum now. And you all consider yourselves "above the fray ...[text shortened]... at me and say "Good riddance!"

Myself, I can only say, with all sincerity, "Adieu".

Tell me why you think my words are ignorant.

I have been registered at discussion boards that are primarily for serving the skeptical community. I find those discussions to be most interesting when Believers are passionately debating against us. In fact, I have posted more than once at those boards that I don't want them to ever ban Believers.

This month I sent a PM to one of Red Hot Pawn's most strident Christians--a man who reads the Bible in a very literal fashion-- inviting him to one of my secular boards. So far, no response from him. 🙁