Originally posted by knightmeisterYour concept of 'salvation' is fatally flawed.
ALL salvation IS by grace either directly or indirectly. We cannot "attain" eternal life unless it is given to us. We are not eternal. He is. Unless He gives life to us via an act of grace how can we "get" it. We can't even create ourselves or control our ageing process , how can we become eternal on our own without grace?
We can work at it and wor ...[text shortened]... n righteousness does not really "belong" to us anyway. We have borrowed it from God.
Originally posted by knightmeisterWhat is this 'you' that will attain eternal life? Is it your consciousness as continued from your point of death?
ALL salvation IS by grace either directly or indirectly. We cannot "attain" eternal life unless it is given to us.
Originally posted by twhiteheadIs there any partivcular point you want me to address first ? You have asked at least 3 separate questions. Maybe if you could prioritise one of them?
What is this 'you' that will attain eternal life? Is it your consciousness as continued from your point of death?
Why do you want eternal life?
Do you think that doing good is something you would do even if there was no promise of reward? ie is eternal life your primary motivation?
[b]Infact , we wouldn't even exist without grace.
The ants ...[text shortened]... for us but we own them when they go bad and God gets the credit when they are good.[/b]
Originally posted by knightmeisterLazy sums it up well.
...what's the point of saying something like this with no explanation? Are you too lazy to say anything else ?
Originally posted by rwingettI agree that salvation is not just some mystical afterlife thing.
Lazy sums it up well.
You cling to the childish notion that 'salvation' comes in an afterlife where you live forever. Nonsense. Salvation is available in this world, during this finite life. Works are the only means of attaining it. Faith is worthless.
Originally posted by BadwaterGod will help anyone who wants to make that choice.
And what of the people that God does not help?
Originally posted by knightmeisterIt's odd that of all the things in my post that you would pick on that one exclusively.
I agree that salvation is not just some mystical afterlife thing.
However, since you obviously hold dear certain values and live by beliefs which you cannot prove to be true but live by them anyway , then your faith must be worth something.
It seems sooo silly to say "faith is worthless" because none of us know for sure what the true nature of ...[text shortened]... , I have mine - to say "faith is worthless" in such a throw away manner is pretty lazy.
Originally posted by rwingett"He who is not with Me is against Me" (Jesus)
It's odd that of all the things in my post that you would pick on that one exclusively.
But what do you presume I have faith in? I would say that you are mistaken. Unless it's something trivial, like having faith that the Tigers will win the World Series.
Originally posted by knightmeisterNot everyone can make that choice, that's what I'm driving at, and it has much more to do than with just babies and young children. The statement is as myopic as the perspective. Your expressed idea of God cannot possibly universally fit all persons! Do you really need for me to list each and every exception to your statement?
God will help anyone who wants to make that choice...