"an ancient dilemma..."

Originally posted by sonship
I think when the message of the Gospel comes to a person, that person should consider his situation. It is often that he will insist rather to consider someone ELSE'S situation.

What about this person who died at birth?
What about this person in the jungles of Tin Buk Three ?
What about this person who is of this other here religion ?
What abou ...[text shortened]... ontroversial and debatable circumstance of that someone else you eagerly bring into the matter.

i am aware my situation is different, what is the relevancy of pointing that out. it is possible to both consider your own position and that of others. im really not sure what you are trying to say. as with your 'we are not joking comment' on the marvel, d.c. thread, total head scratcher.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i am aware my situation is different, what is the relevancy of pointing that out. it is possible to both consider your own position and that of others. im really not sure what you are trying to say. as with your 'we are not joking comment' on the marvel, d.c. thread, total head scratcher.

Right or wrong, what triggered my comment on considering first one's own circumstance was this all too common response to the good news -

what about the billions of people who dont believe in god because they follow another faith? has somebody thrown them a fake life preserver?

Maybe I am too quick. But as soon as I hear "What about ... ? " it seems the common tendency to put off one's own responsibility to respond to the gospel and point elsewhere.

This kind of like "Them - over there. They need to hear it more."

The head scratcher comment ? Forget it.

Originally posted by sonship
Right or wrong, what triggered my comment on considering first one's own circumstance was this all too common response to the good news -

what about the billions of people who dont believe in god because they follow another faith? has somebody thrown them a fake life preserver?

Maybe I am too quick. But as soon as I hear "What about . ...[text shortened]... hem - over there. They need to hear it more."

The head scratcher comment ? Forget it.

the reason i think you hear the 'what about the brazilian rainforest tribe' comments often, is that its a really important and valid point. if god exists, then only appearing and speaking to the hearts and minds of a small minority of the planet seems strange and somewhat cruel. you often talk of the joy jesus fills you with, what about all the poor sods following the wrong religion just because of the luck of birth.

One transparent, question: rwingwett and vistesd, asked individually, "one second after a coroner declares you brain dead and orders your lifeless, bagged body to the nearest morgue (to await instruction from your nearest of kin), where will you (the essential you, your inner being which contains a lifetime's storage of vocabularies and memories) be?" (gb)

Originally posted by stellspalfie

so who's voice are they listening to and feeling? they would argue that what they feel is just as strong (or even stronger) than a christian. are they delusional?

"an ancient dilemma..."

"Let's say there's an ancient dilemma facing us all in present time. If there is an alive and powerful, eternal entity who/which has offered each of us the unearned and undeserved gift of permanent relationship which we individually reject [and repeatedly reject], isn't it reasonable to expect eternal separation as the only viable alternative? Your comments." (gb)

stellspalfie, please help me understand the role "feeling" plays in the "ancient dilemma facing us all in present time". Thanks.

Originally posted by Suzianne
If you are drowning, someone throwing you a life preserver is a gift. They are saving you from disastrous consequences. Of course, you could choose to reject their gift and accept those disastrous consequences.

Except the thrower of the life preserver is not usually the same person who flooded the place. 🙂

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
One transparent, question: rwingwett and vistesd, asked individually, "one second after a coroner declares you brain dead and orders your lifeless, bagged body to the nearest morgue (to await instruction from your nearest of kin), where will you (the essential you, your inner being which contains a lifetime's storage of vocabularies and memories) be?" (gb)

All the atoms that make up my body have existed as part of the universe from the very beginning. For what amounts to a brief instant, those atoms (which continue changing) have been collected together into an entity that you would recognize as 'me'. When I die those atoms will be dispersed back into the undifferentiated wholeness of the universe.

This yearning that you have for the permanence of a particular form of yourself is childish in the extreme. The universe isn't about you, or your particular place in it. You have (through an unimaginable series of events) been granted a brief period of time to contemplate the majesty of the universe. With the knowledge that it need not have been so, it should be more than sufficient.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]"an ancient dilemma..."

"Let's say there's an ancient dilemma facing us all in present time. If there is an alive and powerful, eternal entity who/which has offered each of us the unearned and undeserved gift of permanent relationship which we individually reject [and repeatedly reject], isn't it reasonable to expect eternal separation as the ...[text shortened]... role "feeling" plays in the "ancient dilemma facing us all in present time". Thanks.[/b]

everybody has 'feelings' nobody has 'extra-feelings'. christians do not feel anymore than anybody else. if god is offering something then christians are no more aware of it than anybody else. it would be cruel for god to cause separation from people, when we are all blind to his existence.

the reason i think you hear the 'what about the brazilian rainforest tribe' comments often, is that its a really important and valid point.

It is important to the one who has Gospel to spread to all the world as Jesus commanded His disciples.

It is made important by the procrastinator who is often enumerating reasons that the message should not be believed.

The atheist is interested in reasons why Jesus as the saving Lord should not be believed.

if god exists, then only appearing and speaking to the hearts and minds of a small minority of the planet seems strange and somewhat cruel.

The matter of "Will God be Just?" appears very early in the bible in Genesis. When God informs His friend Abraham that he is going to judge Sodom and Gomorrah Abraham has an back and forth with God trying to assure himself (and God) that judgment must be just - (Genesis 18:23-33).

I like the confession of Abraham in that exchange "Shall the Judge of all the earth not do justly?" (v.25)

Though I do not know all details as the Almighty would know, I have the same kind of sentiment as Abraham there.

Of course the book of Jonah is dedicated to the subject of God's reluctance to have to judge a people. One whole book as a window into God's heart. And the last sentence of it reads:

"And I [God], should I not have pity on Nineveh, the great city, in which are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot discern between their right hand and their left, ..?" (Jonah 4:11)

Notice, God knew the exact COUNT of people who He should exclude from punishment.

Our knowledge is incomplete. God's is total.

you often talk of the joy jesus fills you with, what about all the poor sods following the wrong religion just because of the luck of birth.

Well, I think "No one comes to the Father except through Me" means something perhaps different from what we might assume.

We may consider that "No one comes to the Father except through Christianity". But "Me" is a living Person. It is the "Me" of Jesus Himself.

There may be a difference between - no one comes to the Father except through Christianity and "no one comes to the Father except through Me."

It could mean that if ANYONE comes to the Father, it will only have been because of Jesus.

Look, I think there are some unknowns. While there may be some unknowns we still should receive the Lord Jesus, live the Lord Jesus, and preach the Lord Jesus to the world.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]"an ancient dilemma..."

Let's say there's an ancient dilemma facing us all in present time. If there is an alive and powerful, eternal entity who/which has offered each of us the unearned and undeserved gift of permanent relationship which we individually reject [and repeatedly reject], isn't it reasonable to expect eternal separation as the only viable alternative? Your comments. (gb)[/b]

Universal reconciliation by a more strenuous route is a reasonable alternative, for those who approach this question with an open mind. One might even say it is more reasonable, if this entity is loving. But while it may also be reasonable that the loving entity would not openly disclose this fact directly, it is not reasonable that the entity would misrepresent the alternatives. Therefore, free your mind of clutter. If there are contradictory beliefs in competition for your mind, discard the ones that cast the entity in a bad light. They need not be disproven, just discarded.

Originally posted by sonship

the reason i think you hear the 'what about the brazilian rainforest tribe' comments often, is that its a really important and valid point.

It is important to the one who has Gospel to spread to all the world as Jesus commanded His disciples.

It is made important by the procrastinator who is often enumerating reasons that the message ...[text shortened]... he Lord Jesus, live the Lord Jesus, and preach the Lord Jesus to the world.

i guess this all boils down to your leap of faith. you accept no matter how outwardly ridiculous things appear that god will have a better answer. i can to that, even if i accepted god exists i would still not be able to accept his methods.

Originally posted by stellspalfie

everybody has 'feelings' nobody has 'extra-feelings'. christians do not feel anymore than anybody else. if god is offering something then christians are no more aware of it than anybody else. it would be cruel for god to cause separation from people, when we are all blind to his existence.

"Unfortunately, stellspalfie, yes." "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6 King James Version (KJV)

Clarke's Commentary and Barnes Notes:

http://www.godvine.com/bible/john/14-6

Once again, the issue isn't how we happen to feel.
God's Grace may be accepted or rejected (with or without feeling).
I, for one, am forever grateful. (gb)

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
One transparent, question: rwingwett and vistesd, asked individually, "one second after a coroner declares you brain dead and orders your lifeless, bagged body to the nearest morgue (to await instruction from your nearest of kin), where will you (the essential you, your inner being which contains a lifetime's storage of vocabularies and memories) be?" (gb)

I generally agree with Rwingett; but I am re-exploring my Christic roots here, and will say, "Don't know".

Originally posted by JS357
Universal reconciliation by a more strenuous route is a reasonable alternative, for those who approach this question with an open mind. One might even say it is more reasonable, if this entity is loving. But while it may also be reasonable that the loving entity would not openly disclose this fact directly, it is not reasonable that the entity would misreprese ...[text shortened]... iscard the ones that cast the entity in a bad light. They need not be disproven, just discarded.

Yes.

Originally posted by rwingett

All the atoms that make up my body have existed as part of the universe from the very beginning. For what amounts to a brief instant, those atoms (which continue changing) have been collected together into an entity that you would recognize as 'me'. When I die those atoms will be dispersed back into the undifferentiated wholeness of the universe.

This ye ...[text shortened]... he universe. With the knowledge that it need not have been so, it should be more than sufficient.

"All the atoms that make up my body have existed as part of the universe from the very beginning. For what amounts to a brief instant, those atoms (which continue changing) have been collected together into an entity that you would recognize as 'me'. When I die those atoms will be dispersed back into the undifferentiated wholeness of the universe..."

... and what becomes of the vocabulary, knowledge and private memories accumulated during your lifetime ?