Ancient technology

Originally posted by googlefudge
I think he might be referring to me...

As I do question his credibility as well as his sources.

Being skeptical is generally good advice...
But you need to know how to be skeptical...
which is where most people go wrong.

What about
Suziannes post with references?

You and Whitey seemed to have passed that one without mention.




And thnx for the references Suzianne.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I have 'no clue' now. Which of my 3 basic points on quantum in the op have I gotten wrong then.
You should know that quantum is only a fledgling science and that beyond refuting classical particle physics in some very basic ways, there are only theories as to what actually constitutes matter and the way it behaves.

I thought science encouraged new t ...[text shortened]... I say that it is you , not I, that will be potantially 'missing out' on further knowledge

What???

Quantum theory has been around since the early 20th century and the 'standard model'
is the most detailed, accurate, and evidentially supported theory in, and of, physics.

It's hardly fledgling when there is nobody still alive who can remember a time before it.


It's good to have an open mind but not so open your brain falls out.

You are of the latter category.



If you want to claim that your beliefs are compatible with modern science then you have
to accept what present day science says.

If you are making up your own interpretation of a layman's version of physics then you are
not compatible with modern science.

Thanks for watching.

Originally posted by Suzianne
He doesn't need references for this one. You can check it yourself. Get a satellite map of the Giza Plateau, with a closeup of the three large pyramids. Then get a star chart of Orion's Belt. The three pyramids correspond to the alignment of the stars in Orion's Belt. It's clear, you can see for yourself.

So three pyramids and three stars is the best you can do?
It turns out that not only do they not match that well, but you have to invert the map to get even close.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_correlation_theory

I remain unconvinced that the pyramids have anything to do with Orions belt.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
And thnx for the references Suzianne.

A am not sure if you noticed, but her references regarding the Dogon tribe confirmed that the story was false.

Originally posted by googlefudge
What???

Quantum theory has been around since the early 20th century and the 'standard model'
is the most detailed, accurate, and evidentially supported theory in, and of, physics.

It's hardly fledgling when there is nobody still alive who can remember a time before it.


It's good to have an open mind but not so open your brain falls out.

Y ...[text shortened]... etation of a layman's version of physics then you are
not compatible with modern science.

So just passing over my questions now are we?

I asked how I have 'no clue' as to what quantum says. I then gave you my op and my 3 numbered points so you could point out if these 3 points also showed I had no clue. Instead of telling me where I have erred, you have just continued to slam me, accusing me of having my 'brains fall out'.

modern science is at loggerheads with itself. Much turmoil and angst and ridicule has been dished out to those who dont conform to established scientific thinking.
Reminds me of those that ridiculed the first ones to suggest that the earth was flat... or those that didn't believe the scientists who postulated that there are many miniscule organisms that make you sick.

Science is at the whim of big brother, just like everything else. To think otherwise is a fallacy.
And relatively speaking quantum theory and its derivatives like string theory are quite new. And as regards the layman they are virtually unheard of.

Now, are you going to tell me still that I have no clue or are you willing to revise your thesis?

Originally posted by twhitehead
A am not sure if you noticed, but her references regarding the Dogon tribe confirmed that the story was false.

How so? did I miss something?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
You should know that quantum is only a fledgling science and that beyond refuting classical particle physics in some very basic ways, there are only theories as to what actually constitutes matter and the way it behaves.

I watched a series of lectures on Youtube by Richard Feinman given over 50 years ago I believe. In it he explained that Quantum mechanics could predict certain constants to an accuracy of something like 10 decimal places (I don't recall the exact number). But I have heard it said that its equivalent to about an inch of error when measuring the continent of the USA.
Quantum Mechanics is not some wishy washy guesswork, its solid verifiable science with many many highly accurate predictions and knowledge of those predictions is essential for GPS to work, or your computers CPU to work.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I watched a series of lectures on Youtube by Richard Feinman given over 50 years ago I believe. In it he explained that Quantum mechanics could predict certain constants to an accuracy of something like 10 decimal places (I don't recall the exact number). But I have heard it said that its equivalent to about an inch of error when measuring the continent o ...[text shortened]... and knowledge of those predictions is essential for GPS to work, or your computers CPU to work.

Thank you

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Science as we know it has a linear way of looking at everything.
It assumes that people from ancient history were less intelligent and knew less about the world than modern people do.
Also modern thinking assumes that "futuristic" means technologically advanced, ie. if we were to see some historical people reject say oil driven cars in preference to ...[text shortened]... rstanding of astronomy (as a common link), despite astronomy not being necessary for survival.

I enjoyed the video and had to see it all the way through.

I do not have all the answers to the mysterious past of this earth. You know I am a Bible believing person. So I think some of the pieces to the jigsaw puzzle might fit in the picture that I believe the Bible shows.

1.) I wonder about the apparent pre-Adam system. Some kind of cataclysmic interruption I see on this planet before the advent of man. I wonder if this plays any part in that video's theories. I don't know.

2.) I also wonder about pre-flood human civilization. How much understanding could people amass in a life span that extended to almost a thousand years. That could include a long time to observe astronomical events. I wonder if that plays a part in the video's theories.

3.) If a small number of people came off of the ark of Noah, I wonder what memories and records from the past they carried with them onto the new earth. I wonder what tales or knowledge they may have passed on to their descendants. Maybe that has some part in the video's theories.

One thing I think the video assumes which may not be the case. He kind of hints that these past highly science cultures were also benevolent. That is that their moral nobility matched their science knowledge. This is probably the wishful thinking of a humanist outlook. The opposite may be the case.

That is that maybe horrific wickedness or arrogance accompanied their great knowledge and that we'd probably be glad to see them go by the wayside. Or maybe their "goodness" was utopian and destructive at its root.

Very interesting was the theory that the structures built seemed to be design to withstand terrible earth convulsions or geologic calamities. This seemed to skate curiously close to the Bible story of the building of the tower of Babel after the flood.

I do not know the answers. But I do believe God has communicated to man in the Bible certain matters that God deems important for us to know. That is those things related to His purpose and our salvation.

Interesting video.

Originally posted by sonship
I enjoyed the video and had to see it all the way through.

I do not have all the answers to the mysterious past of this earth. You know I am a Bible believing person. So I think some of the pieces to the jigsaw puzzle might fit in the picture that I believe the Bible shows.

1.) I wonder about the apparent pre-Adam system. Some kind of cataclysmic in ...[text shortened]... . That is those things related to His purpose and our salvation.

Interesting video.

So do you cross-reference with other history books when trying to ascertain the truths in the bible?

I do. The fact that there are several other religious history books, similar to the bible, says to me that they all may contain some truth.

but if your view dont fit in with accepted scientific thought, then it seems quite unplausible that that view is a literal one.
After all, there are many allegories in the bible. Genesis being one of the main ones.

So do you cross-reference with other history books when trying to ascertain the truths in the bible?

I take note of things written here and there. As an exhaustive exercise I do not cross reference everything. I don't think everything can be cross referenced.

I am aware of some arguments. And I am aware of time vindicating some things said in the bible.

For example, the "pavement" before Pilate was disputed. Christians lived and died probably not knowing if the details of Luke's gospel could be historically cross referenced. Then that pavement that Luke talked about was discovered by archeologists.

I do. The fact that there are several other religious history books, similar to the bible, says to me that they all may contain some truth.

I know that there are elements of truth found in other sacred writings. I would expect that. I would be surprised if that was not the case.

but if your view dont fit in with accepted scientific thought, then it seems quite unplausible that that view is a literal one.
After all, there are many allegories in the bible. Genesis being one of the main ones.

I also know, of course, that parables, allegories are in the Bible. With skill one learns to take sections as they seem to be written.

There is real history that has allegory behind it too. This is because God who transcends time can place significance to historical matters, places and people.


Ie. Jesus, the Son of the Father was crucified. But the people demanded to spare Barabbas - which means "son of the father".

A bit of allegorical irony there arranged by God Himself. They wanted to release the son of the father and they crucified the Son of the Father.

Now the seamless flow of history from Genesis to latter chapters leads me to understand that this is not pure allegory. Though without doubt on my part, great symbolism was sovereignly in the history as well.

But in reading from Genesis through the fall of Adam and Eve, through to Cain and Abel, through to latter short biographies I do not notice that the clock stops and one enters some mythic realm of pure allegory.

The line of history is told in a seamless manner. "East of Eden" for example seems geographic. I don't think we are to understand "east" of a mythical allegorical place but actual "east" of an actual place.

The seven days of creation and reformation could be from the standpoint of how it was revealed to the seer. But I am not sure.

Seven successive prophetic visions could be how God revealed some things to the prophet. But I am not sure.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
How so? did I miss something?

My mistake. I misread it.
However if you read through the Wikipedia page it is clear that the story is not reliable ie it might be true, but there are plenty of alternative explanations that make more sense.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
So if quantum mechanics explains how matter operates at a quantum level, then how does it account for electrons spinning in such a uniform way as to give us matter as we know it at a macro level? Why dont the spinning quantum particles just fly all over the place?

I am no expert at quantum mechanics. In fact I haven't done any courses on the subject whatsoever. What little I know is from books and youtube videos.
However, I cannot over emphasize that Quantum Mechanics is modern physics and is not as new or as unclear as you seem to think.
Quantum Mechanics does explain how electrons in atoms behave. I believe that the equations of quantum mechanics are very complicated and some behaviours of particles are very hard to work out, but the ones people have managed to work out, match experiment to an extraordinary degree of accuracy.
Quantum Mechanics is not intuitive, which is why there is so much myth surrounding it. This does not mean it is not exact.
We also do not know why the equations of Quantum Mechanics are the way they are ie we don't understand the structure of the universe at an even finer level. But the equations are nevertheless very specific and very exact and so far have proven to match experiment to the limit of our instruments.
Quantum Mechanics also predicted many phenomena which were subsequently shown to exist as predicted.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Yes, but that 10 year figure also supposes that, using 16,000 to 40,000 workers, 2 million 2.5 ton blocks could have been placed at a sustained rate of 180 per hour, or 3 per minute (!), in 10-hour workdays for those 10 years. And this is ONLY the Great Pyramid. You tell me if that sounds reasonable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Pierre_Houdin