another bloody blood question!

Originally posted by stellspalfie
no, no blethering here.

example 1. you are walking down the street with your j.w. friends and a gang of men attack you because they hate j.w's and intend to kill you and your friends.

going by what you said earlier you would be happy to fight back in this situation.

example 2. you are walking down the street with your j.w. friends and gang of r actions are part of a war and therefore political?!?!?!

am i understanding you correctly?

no i would be happy to defend myself and remove myself from the scene, you are
blethering to state that this is a war. considering that we do not carry weapons, how
are we going to fight the soldiers bullets, by running away?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no i would be happy to defend myself and remove myself from the scene, you are
blethering to state that this is a war. considering that we do not carry weapons, how
are we going to fight the soldiers bullets, by running away?

how and what you use to defend yourself is not relevant. you are living in a nation of j.w's that is being invaded by a nation intent on wiping every j.w. man, woman and child from the earth. what would you do?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
how and what you use to defend yourself is not relevant. you are living in a nation of j.w's that is being invaded by a nation intent on wiping every j.w. man, woman and child from the earth. what would you do?

I would pray to Jehovah for strength to resist resorting to violence.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I would pray to Jehovah for strength to resist resorting to violence.

right let me get this straight. if you get attacked in the street by a dude looking to kill just you, you can respond with violence. if thousands of men are attacking everybody, including you, then you would try not to respond with violence?!?!?!?!

Originally posted by stellspalfie
im not asking you to be churchill, im asking what would you do. what would your opinion be. if you were a j.w. living in the 1940's what would you want your nation to do?

i can only think of two possible scenarios, surrender or war.

It doesn't matter what I think does it? How can 1 persons opinion matter on what the nations do among themselves?
And if I lived then I would pray to Jehovah to someday soon, when it is his time, to put an end to all the crap that satan and man is doing to all humans and to this planet.
This is something that all humans should be doing instead of putting the trust in other imperfect humans to lead us. Look at the clowns in office in all the countries of the world as we speak. And look at the world now and the total mess it's in and on the brink of busting open any day.
With all the stupid things man has done over and over and over, (((((((((((((((((( nothing ))))))))))) is any better today then it was when the first group of men picked up the first sword and attacked another group of humans.
Nothing man can and will do will ever make it better. Only God will and most will never even give him the time of day.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
right let me get this straight. if you get attacked in the street by a dude looking to kill just you, you can respond with violence. if thousands of men are attacking everybody, including you, then you would try not to respond with violence?!?!?!?!

no i will defend myself as far as it is incumbent upon me for my personal safety, which may include removing myself from the place, how you equate this with violence and war is your business, not mine.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I would pray to Jehovah for strength to resist resorting to violence.

He has no clue as to how a Christian should respond. I think no matter how you answer he will continue to push you on with these silly situations....

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no i will defend myself as far as it is incumbent upon me for my personal safety, which may include removing myself from the place, how you equate this with violence and war is your business, not mine.

Well if you are prepared to defend yourself with violence, from people who are attacking you, for your personal safety, what about your wife and children? Presumably you will defend them "as afar as it is incumbent upon" you for their safety too? What about other relatives? What about your neighbours? What about your community? What about your work mates? What about the people living in your city? How can you only be willing to "defend [yourself] as far as it is incumbent upon [you] for [your] personal safety"? Do you have responsibility for no one else at all?

Originally posted by galveston75
He has no clue as to how a Christian should respond. I think no matter how you answer he will continue to push you on with these silly situations....

i find it rather odd how defensive you and robbie are getting. my questions are because im interested to understand the j.w. approach to pacifism. i keep asking and setting scenarios because im confused by the answers.

robbie says he will respond to personal violence. yet if he is attacked by soldiers he will not respond with violence and pray. can you see how this could possibly hard to understand for somebody outside of your religion?

heres another 'silly' question for you.

if waiting until soldiers are kicking your door in and personally attacking you gives you a survival rate of 1% or joining up with allied army, militia or insurgents offers you a survival rate of 50%. which is the best option for 'personal safety'.

you guys would fight for personal safety. if there were 5 of you walking down the street and were attacked by 10 men would you fight? what if it were 20 v 100 or 100 v 1000 or 1000 v 5000. where do you draw the line between personal safety and fighting a war.

Originally posted by FMF
Well if you are prepared to defend yourself with violence, from people who are attacking you, for your personal safety, what about your wife and children? Presumably you will defend them "as afar as it is incumbent upon" you for their safety too? What about other relatives? What about your neighbours? What about your community? What about your work mates? What a t upon [you] for [your] personal safety"? Do you have responsibility for no one else at all?

i did not say violence, you did, assumers are gonna assume, haters are gonna hate.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i find it rather odd how defensive you and robbie are getting. my questions are because im interested to understand the j.w. approach to pacifism. i keep asking and setting scenarios because im confused by the answers.

robbie says he will respond to personal violence. yet if he is attacked by soldiers he will not respond with violence and pray. can y ...[text shortened]... 1000 or 1000 v 5000. where do you draw the line between personal safety and fighting a war.

we did not say fight, we said defend ourselves, that you equate that with fighting is again, another figment of your imagination, after all, anyone who can make the jump from defending oneself in whatever form that takes to trying to construe that its war needs their bum felt to bring them back to reality,

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i did not say violence, you did, assumer are gonna assume.

This was the exchange:

Originally posted by stellspalfie
right let me get this straight. if you get attacked in the street by a dude looking to kill just you, you can respond with violence. if thousands of men are attacking everybody, including you, then you would try not to respond with violence?!?!?!?!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no i will defend myself as far as it is incumbent upon me for my personal safety, which may include removing myself from the place, how you equate this with violence and war is your business, not mine.

I am just responding to what you said, not assuming anything.

Are you now saying - contrary to what you appeared to say in the exchange above - that you wouldn't defend yourself?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
we did not say fight, we said defend ourselves, that you equate that with fighting is again, another figment of your imagination, after all, anyone who can make the jump from defending oneself in whatever form that takes to trying to construe that its war needs their bum felt to bring them back to reality,

apologies robbie, my mistake. however it would help me understand j.w's better if you gave more detail in your answers. can i take it from the fact you have stressed the point that you have never said you would use violence or fight that you would never use violence or fight. more detail would really help me avoiding trying to fill in the gaps and jumping to conclusions.

right let me get this straight. if you get attacked in the street by a dude looking to kill just you, you can respond with violence. if thousands of men are attacking everybody, including you, then you would try not to respond with violence?!?!?!?!

Originally posted by robbie carrob contrary to what you appeared to say in the exchange above - that you wouldn't defend yourself?[/b]

please quote where i stated violence, that is correct I did not, , once again you have
been caught assuming that i meant violence, why because you never take the time to
try to understand another's perspective and time and again FAIL to take into
consideration what other people mean and instead try to put meaning where no
meaning was intended, why, because you are an assuming assumer. Where did i state
I would resort to violence????, nowhere, so you assumed that i meant violence and
now you are lying to try to cover it up, tell me FMF why do you never take the time to
clarify what people actually mean, why must you deal solely in assumptions? dont you
realise its like a counterfeit currency, it looks real, but in fact has no value? assumers
are gonna assume and haters are gonna hate, thank you for validating the premise, i
could not have done it without you.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i find it rather odd how defensive you and robbie are getting. my questions are because im interested to understand the j.w. approach to pacifism. i keep asking and setting scenarios because im confused by the answers.

robbie says he will respond to personal violence. yet if he is attacked by soldiers he will not respond with violence and pray. can y ...[text shortened]... 1000 or 1000 v 5000. where do you draw the line between personal safety and fighting a war.

Sorry if I come across that way. It does get old though when we do answer and the questions keep coming. But sorry and nothing personal.
The point Robbie is making which I completely agree with is common sense has to be used as well as what the Bible says a Christian should do in responce to any given situation as the ones you keep bringing up. The numbers you keep wanting answers to, do not matter.
First and formost is we are commanded from God NOT to kill. Only God has the authority over life as NO human does. God makes it very clear that ALL life is his and he has the right to ask it from any of us and if we take another and we will answer to him no matter what the situation was when that life was taken. This is a fact that has been long lost by man.
Jesus gave a perfect example himself when he gave the command to turn the other cheek even when faced with death.
He also said many would die because of us following him. He never once said to fight back.
But we still have the right to preserve our life's when confronted with a deadly situation. We have the right to protect the life's of our family.
This is where common sense has to come in and do EVERYTHING possible to get out of a situation that could cause harm to anothers life.
So because of every situation that could possibly happen, I can't say what anyone should do. That is up to them and only them.
But if one takes another life even in defending themselves, God will notice and one will have to answer for that action to him.
I hope this helps...