Anyone but Huckabee in 08

Originally posted by gaychessplayer
Probably the greatest civil-rights leader of all time was the REVERAND Martin Luther King, Jr. His Christian values at least in part propelled his zeal for racial equality and harmony.

And numerous Popes presided over terrible human rights abuses, the inquisition, the crusades, and numerous other massacres and torture situations.

But it's ok - God said so.

But let me ask you this. If King had not been a Reverend, do you think he wouldn't have protested for civil rights? Was it contingent upon him being a reverend, or simply contingent upon him being Martin Luther King?

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
The USA is not a Christian nation.

Sam Harris wrote a bestseller attacking Christianity called "Letter to a Christian Nation." When even the "other side" admits that it is, what can I say?

Originally posted by gaychessplayer
However, a Christian qua Christian can be ethically inconsistent, while an atheist qua atheist cannot be ethically inconsistent.

An atheist is not committed to any particular ethical framework, while the (consistent) Christian is.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
And, hey, with a handle like yours, don't you get a little sick being told you are an abomination who's going to spend an eternity in hell. Because that's were YOU'RE going, my friend, make no mistake. Or maybe you like being stoned to death?

No one has ever told me that I'm going to spend an eternity in Hell because of my being gay.

I don't expect to be stoned to death. But you have a point: if I was stoned to death I probably wouldn't like it.

Originally posted by gaychessplayer
An atheist is not committed to any particular ethical framework, while the (consistent) Christian is.

I don't see why the Christian is committed to a particular ethical framework any more than the atheist. For example, there are Christians who are pro-choice, support gay marriage, etc.

Originally posted by gaychessplayer
No one has ever told me that I'm going to spend an eternity in Hell because of my being gay.

I don't expect to be stoned to death. But you have a point: if I was stoned to death I probably wouldn't like it.

No one has ever told me that I'm going to spend an eternity in Hell because of my being gay.

Many Christians would insist that acting on your homosexual urges is sinful. They would quote the standard verses from Leviticus and Romans, etc. What say you to those arguments?

Originally posted by gaychessplayer
Sam Harris wrote a bestseller attacking Christianity called "Letter to a Christian Nation." When even the "other side" admits that it is, what can I say?

You can tell him he's wrong.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
You can tell him he's wrong.

Even if every single US citizen was a raving evangelical, the USA still wouldn't be a Christian nation, right?

Nobody's mentioned Chuck Norris, quite possibly the most sinister factor in the whole Huckabee equation.

Originally posted by gaychessplayer
An atheist is not committed to any particular ethical framework, while the (consistent) Christian is.

It has been my experience that if you eliminated the inconsistent christians from the constistent christians then you'd have a really small population.

Every christian I have had the chance to get to know have held views or act in ways inconsistent with traditional "christian values". Some of the most religious of the christians I have gotten to know have been some of the most duplicitous and lying bastards you'd ever meet. Of course they'd consider themselves to be "consistent" christians.

Of course, if you take the view that you can pick and choose which values you want, then anything is a consistent christian really and it becomes meaningless.

So what really is your standard for being a consisten christian?

Originally posted by SwissGambit
[b]No one has ever told me that I'm going to spend an eternity in Hell because of my being gay.

Many Christians would insist that acting on your homosexual urges is sinful. They would quote the standard verses from Leviticus and Romans, etc. What say you to those arguments?[/b]

I believe that the Christians (of which I am one) are right. As a result, I DO NOT act on my homosexual urges. (But even if I did, I'd still go to Hell for some other reason.😳)

Originally posted by SwissGambit
I don't see why the Christian is committed to a particular ethical framework any more than the atheist. For example, there are Christians who are pro-choice, support gay marriage, etc.

I think that the (consistent) Christian is ethically bound to obey the ten commandments and follow the Golden Rule, for example. How that plays out in specific cases (abortion, gay marriage, etc.) Christians can and do differ on.

Edit: Just for the record (not that anybody cares), I think that gay marriage should be allowed and that Roe v. Wade was a good pragmatic practical solution to the abortion issue.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
And numerous Popes presided over terrible human rights abuses, the inquisition, the crusades, and numerous other massacres and torture situations.

But it's ok - God said so.

But let me ask you this. If King had not been a Reverend, do you think he wouldn't have protested for civil rights? Was it contingent upon him being a reverend, or simply contingent upon him being Martin Luther King?

Many atrocities have been committed in the name of religion in general and Christianity in particular. Such atrocities must be condemned. There is no excuse for any of them. And ALL of them are condemned by the Bible itself! Does even the most avid Christian-hater truly believe that Jesus would have supported the Inquisition or the Crusades? The proper response to the Christian who would committ evil acts is to tell him or her to sit down and read AND FOLLOW what the Bible says before acting.

Originally posted by gaychessplayer
Many atrocities have been committed in the name of religion in general and Christianity in particular. Such atrocities must be condemned. There is no excuse for any of them. And ALL of them are condemned by the Bible itself! Does even the most avid Christian-hater truly believe that Jesus would have supported the Inquisition or the Crusades? The ...[text shortened]... il acts is to tell him or her to sit down and read AND FOLLOW what the Bible says before acting.

I think the old testament God could use a few lessons in not comitting atrocities, too.

As if it was somehow okay to kill every first-born in Egypt.

Originally posted by gaychessplayer
I believe that the Christians (of which I am one) are right. As a result, I DO NOT act on my homosexual urges. (But even if I did, I'd still go to Hell for some other reason.😳)

This is probably way too personal, but I'm actually curious. Feel free to ignore. I'm not trying to be insulting.

But... do you at least masturbate? And when you do, do you fantasize about other men? It seems like that would count as acting on your homosexual urges. If you have exclusively homosexual desires, isn't any indulgence of them - any form of sexual release - a sin?

Again, I realize that's incredibly personal and I'm not trying to be disrespectful or offensive.