Originally posted by darthmix I think the old testament God could use a few lessons in not comitting atrocities, too.
As if it was somehow okay to kill every first-born in Egypt.
Yes, in the O.T. God indeed often took justice into his own hands (so to speak). But he only employed the Jews themselves to do the "dirty work" (so to speak) in very rare cases. And in those few cases, God told them to do it directly; the Jews didn't "decide" on their own to do it. The Inquistion, the Crusades, etc. were Christians acting on their own to pillage and plunder, etc.
Originally posted by gaychessplayer Yes, in the O.T. God indeed often took justice into his own hands (so to speak). But he only employed the Jews themselves to do the "dirty work" (so to speak) in very rare cases. And in those few cases, God told them to do it directly; the Jews didn't "decide" on their own to do it. The Inquistion, the Crusades, etc. were Christians acting on their own to pillage and plunder, etc.
Do you think the Catholic's who were engaging in the Crusades/Inquisition didn't claim they were being led by God to do what they were doing? Sure, you can (and likely will) conclude they they were mistaken/wrong/sinners, but why could this not also be true of the Jews in the OT?
My point was that the plagues of Egypt, which involve the purposeful killing of innocent children, must themselves be considered atrocities, and true Christians must condemn those also.
Originally posted by TheSkipper Do you think the Catholic's who were engaging in the Crusades/Inquisition didn't claim they were being led by God to do what they were doing? Sure, you can (and likely will) conclude they they were mistaken/wrong/sinners, but why could this not also be true of the Jews in the OT?
I think that evil religious people often CLAIM that they're doing it in the name of God. Please show me where God commanded Christians to rape, rob, pillage and plunder other peoples. In the OT, God specfically commanded the Jews to kill certain people in a particular place and time. Unlike the Koran, the Holy Bible has no "standing order" for believers to kill infidels, e.g.
No, but it still includes examples of behavior or commands by God which are incompatible with the doctrine that innocent human life is sacred. Christians can say they believe human life is sacred, but they undermine that claim if they fail to condemn those actions described in the OT.
Originally posted by gaychessplayer I think that evil religious people often CLAIM that they're doing it in the name of God. Please show me where God commanded Christians to rape, rob, pillage and plunder other peoples. In the OT, God specfically commanded the Jews to kill certain people in a particular place and time.
Jesus, how dense can you be? Do you really think this answers Skipper's question, rather than merely avoiding the gist of it?
Originally posted by gaychessplayer Edit: Just for the record (not that anybody cares), I think that gay marriage should be allowed and that Roe v. Wade was a good pragmatic practical solution to the abortion issue.
These are precisely the things that Huckabee and others like him want to outlaw.
Now I cannot tell whether you really support Huckabee [as you seemed to earlier in the thread] or not.
Perhaps you miss the point that when Huckabee talks about "God's standards", he means more than just the Ten Commandments.
Originally posted by gaychessplayer I think that the (consistent) Christian is ethically bound to obey the ten commandments and follow the Golden Rule, for example. How that plays out in specific cases (abortion, gay marriage, etc.) Christians can and do differ on.
Another question - do you really "keep the Sabbath day holy"? I submit that few of today's Christians bother keeping this commandment.
Originally posted by darthmix This is probably way too personal, but I'm actually curious. Feel free to ignore. I'm not trying to be insulting.
But... do you at least masturbate? And when you do, do you fantasize about other men? It seems like that would count as acting on your homosexual urges. If you have exclusively homosexual desires, isn't any indulgence of them - any form of se ...[text shortened]... , I realize that's incredibly personal and I'm not trying to be disrespectful or offensive.
Yes, I do masturbate while thinking about males. It is also a sin ,for which I am (presumably) forgiven.
Originally posted by darthmix No, but it still includes examples of behavior or commands by God which are incompatible with the doctrine that innocent human life is sacred. Christians can say they believe human life is sacred, but they undermine that claim if they fail to condemn those actions described in the OT.
I too find the atrocities committed by God troubling, and I think that those atrocities and the so-called "Problem of Evil" are the strongest arguments against Christiantiy. I have no good answer to either argument.
Originally posted by SwissGambit Another question - do you really "keep the Sabbath day holy"? I submit that few of today's Christians bother keeping this commandment.
I don't do much of anything that God presumably wants me to do. Perhaps I'm not really a Christian even though I think that I am?
Originally posted by DoctorScribbles Jesus, how dense can you be? Do you really think this answers Skipper's question, rather than merely avoiding the gist of it?
As you can tell from my posts, I can be REALLY dense. Having said that, I'm not (at least on purpose) trying to avoid the gist of the question.
Originally posted by gaychessplayer I am not a Huckabee supporter. I'm a registered Democrat, and will probably vote for either Ms. Clinton or Mr. Obama.
You said earlier in the thread that "The Constitution has to fit SOMEBODY'S standard, so it may as well be God's."
Which is the problem. Nobody really knows what God's standard is. Instead, we get guys like Huckabee that are presumptuous enough to speak, and act, on God's behalf.
Anyone but Huckabee in 08
23 Jan '08 22:10
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