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The view that denominations are started over different interpretations of the Bible is overplayed. Some denominational differences only have intepretation of Scripture as a facade.
The real problem is ambition for position of leadership. Someone somewhere doesn't want to follow someone else somewhere.
Tiffs over doctrines is often an overplayed facade for the real issue. Its jealousy over leadership which causes splits many times.
Originally posted by DoctorScribbles[/b]Thank God it is not you who formulates Roman-Catholic teachings.
From the Catholic Catechism (http://www.kofc.org/publications/cis/catechism/search.cfm):1034 Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of [b]"the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost. 614 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, ...[text shortened]... sess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesNo. But I question the relevance of your quotes into the catechism. The thread topic did not mention 'non-believers'; it was about non-Catholics. I hope you can appreciate the difference. The Catholic Church has never taught that all non-Catholics go to hell. I also expect you misunderstand the meaning of 'non-believer'.
The current Catholic Catechism says that Jesus shall cast non-believers into a lake of fire.
Do you deny this?
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Originally posted by PinkFloydThis is sort of correct. One of the major publications of Vatican II, Lumen Gentium (Light of the Nations), introduced the distinction between invisible and visible membership in the Catholic Church. A Protestant is not visibly part of the Church but because of baptism, zeal, and moral life, may be an invisible member of the Church and thus may be saved. Lumen Gentium also explicitly mentions the possibility of salvation for Jews and Muslims for similar reasons.
Vatican 2 and following no longer asigns Protestants to the list of :non-believers".
Thus endeth the debate.
Originally posted by Conrau KWhat about atheists? :'(
This is sort of correct. One of the major publications of Vatican II, Lumen Gentium (Light of the Nations), introduced the distinction between invisible and visible membership in the Catholic Church. A Protestant is not visibly part of the Church but because of baptism, zeal, and moral life, may be an invisible member of the Church and thus may be sa ...[text shortened]... also explicitly mentions the possibility of salvation for Jews and Muslims for similar reasons.
Originally posted by rwingettNor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life.
What about atheists? :'(
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html
Originally posted by ivanhoeCould you explain more about what you mean? If you don't consider the Catechism of the Catholic Church and various doctrines and documents throughout history as Roman Catholic teachings, what do you consider them to be? How do you define "teachings" then?
You're presenting a strawman. There is no such Roman-Catholic teaching.
Originally posted by pawnhandlerThe RCC Catechism does not anywhere support the belief that all non-Catholics go to hell. The Catholic Church has always taught that those outside the visible confines of the Church, whether pagans, Jews, Protestants, atheists or heretics, can still obtain salvation. Buckky's comment really is a strawman. See Lumen Gentium.
Could you explain more about what you mean? If you don't consider the Catechism of the Catholic Church and various doctrines and documents throughout history as Roman Catholic teachings, what do you consider them to be? How do you define "teachings" then?
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Originally posted by Conrau KI misread his post. I thought he said that there was no such thing as Roman Catholic teaching. I apologize.
The RCC Catechism does not anywhere support the belief that all non-Catholics go to hell. The Catholic Church has always taught that those outside the visible confines of the Church, whether pagans, Jews, Protestants, atheists or heretics, can still obtain salvation. Buckky's comment really is a strawman. See Lumen Gentium.
(edit: Of course I know that what was presented isn't RC teaching. I've taken much more than my share of theology courses. But thanks for giving me the chance to correct my foolish reading error.)
Originally posted by Conrau KHow do they obtain salvation ? Is the Catholic the churuch the one true church, and all others are just messing around playing church ? That's the way I understood it growing up.
The RCC Catechism does not anywhere support the belief that all non-Catholics go to hell. The Catholic Church has always taught that those outside the visible confines of the Church, whether pagans, Jews, Protestants, atheists or heretics, can still obtain salvation. Buckky's comment really is a strawman. See Lumen Gentium.