1. Joined
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    05 Sep '05 20:43
    Originally posted by RazzleBreezer
    Isn't it obvious now that some sort of God exists? I mean Science has not yet been able to disprove religion so far. Also, the earth is so complicated that it can't be chance that it exists. Yeah, yeah I know that perhaps there are trillions of universes with every possibility of life and we just happen to live in the right one, bla bla bla, but if t ...[text shortened]... l enough to create the earth anyway. Can some atheist somewhere explain this puzzling conundrum?
    Isn't it obvious now that some sort of God exists?

    no.

    I mean Science has not yet been able to disprove religion so far.

    so you make the claim, and it's up to everyone else to prove you wrong? i don't think so.

    Also, the earth is so complicated that it can't be chance that it exists.

    maybe, maybe not. i don't think your claims are obvious.
  2. R
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    05 Sep '05 20:451 edit
    Originally posted by KneverKnight
    Oh really? Do go on.
    First I have a copy and paste with permission that is a very interesting read from ...

    http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=582&mode=&order=0&thold=0

    The Real “War of the Worlds”

    By Caitlyn Theisen


    For thousands of years, a war has raged between two worlds; one a kingdom of light, the other a kingdom of darkness. Lives have been lost, battles have been fought, homes have been torn apart. Lies have been spun, traps have been set, countless have been deceived. These two worlds that wrestle against one another both fight for life – your life. But only one has the truth. This epic war between the two greatest kingdoms in the universe is never so evident as it is in the Creation/Evolution debate.

    “Surely not!” you cry. “How can a mere science disagreement be considered so crucial? What does this debate have to do with me?”

    Let us enter this world of treachery and deception to find the facts that have been purposefully distorted and blurred. Let us boldly drive away the shadows and reveal that which has been so carefully concealed in the darkness: the truth.

    God our Father has His heart set on having us to call His own – but so does Satan. These titanic powers have clashed and battled together since the very beginning. And since the very beginning, Satan has used evolution to draw God’s children away from Him.

    In Genesis 3, the serpent successfully tempted mankind with the promise that we “will be like God.” In the same way, evolution proclaims that we evolved by chance; that there was no outside force, no creator to mold us as we are. Without a creator, there is nothing higher than ourselves. We are, then, each and every one of us, gods. We are our own god and need look no farther than ourselves. How sad this selfish way of thinking has trapped so many into searching for answers within themselves when all they will find is emptiness and brokenness without hope of redemption.

    The cost of believing the Theory of Evolution is high and the consequences are numerous. Evolution claims we do not have a Creator and are a series of accidents. Because we are not uniquely created, it is impossible for us to have a unique purpose. Evolution reduces human beings into organisms related to earthworms without purpose or direction in life. Evolution takes away the point to living. Without a purpose, life is cheapened. It is no big deal to abort unborn children or to abuse your body with drugs or alcohol. The Theory of Evolution states each organism evolves into a more highly evolved organism. One creature, then, is considered “higher” than another. This is also known as racism. Hitler was a devoted follower of Darwin and, like Darwin himself, fervently believed that their race was higher on the evolutionary chain than were the blacks, Jews, and other “non-whites.” Stalin and Marx were also staunch evolutionists and many were killed under their political rule. Evolution has directly led to wars, mass genocide, murder, and bondage. Much evil stems from its beliefs and has led the blind, the naive, and the wounded away from the One who would give them sight, wisdom, and healing.

    Why has Satan spent so much energy into promoting evolution? Merely to create a difference of opinion concerning science facts or trick a few intellectuals? No, the stakes are much higher.

    The Devil’s entire purpose is to steal, slaughter, and annihilate (John 10:10). The very core of evolution is to lead us into everlasting death. Evolution propounds that, we have no Creator, and we came about by chance. Since there is no Creator, there is no creation story, no Adam. If there is no Adam, there is no fall, no sin. If there is no sin, there is nothing to be saved from. And if there is nothing to be saved from, there is no need for a savior. This, my friends, is the heart of evolution. It takes away the need for a savior and the path to everlasting life. Satan has worked hard to ensure that this lie is taught in every science book, in every classroom, and in every grade. If you questioned any public school student from first grade on, every single one would be able to tell you basic evolutionary “facts,” such as the Big Bang, how birds came from reptiles, and how men and apes evolved from a common ancestor. As a biology major at an esteemed university, the very first biology class I had to take was Evolution and Diversity. Not only do evolutionists assume evolution is fact, they blend their evolutionary theory with the fact of diversity and call it all fact. Satan has done a marvelous job at saturating our education system with his “truth.” So well, in fact, that 83% of children raised in a Christian home reject their faith by the end of their first year in college.

    The situation at times may appear hopeless. This appealing lie has been set behind a facade of logic and science. In reality, evolution is a theory of assumptions that are not only without evidence, they are illogical and unscientific. So what can we do to uproot this lie that is deeply embedded in the lives of so many? Exactly what our God and our Savior have already told us to do. We are to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. We are to preach the good news of salvation, which includes creation and the fall of man. We are to pray for those in authority, including education boards and textbook writers. We are to use our influence on school boards and politics. We do have a say in what is taught in our schools and what curriculum our children learn. Let us not hold back and let yet another child of God fall to Satan’s tempting but false offer to “be like God.” Let us boldly stand for truth in our education, our society, and our lives. Let us seek out truth in every area of life and we will find that where truth is, there God is also, for they are one and the same. True science points to God.

    Let me warn you. The quest for truth is not for the faint of heart. Your journey will lead you to new levels of knowledge that will demand much in order to be fully understood. You will uncover such blatant and obvious lies, you will be astounded so many have believed in them. You will face the raw anger and hatred of many who oppose you, because you have exposed their “proof,” their religion, as fraudulent and nonexistent. In order to find truth, you must be willing to let go of all you have ever known or believed, for the truth will stand on its own and needs no explanation. Do not despair in this quest you have chosen, for it leads to abundant life. Take heart and be encouraged. For your Savior will never leave you and he will never forsake you, even in the midst of your darkest tribulation. Take heed of his words, for they are truth.

    Matthew 28:19a - 20 (NIV)
    (19a) “Therefore go and make disciples of all the nations…
    (20) and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
  3. Standard memberno1marauder
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    05 Sep '05 21:05
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    First I have a copy and paste with permission that is a very interesting read from ...

    http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=582&mode=&order=0&thold=0

    The Real “War of the Worlds”

    By Caitlyn Theisen


    For thousands of years, a war has raged between two worlds; one a kingdom of light, the other a kingdom of dar ...[text shortened]... y everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
    BS. And I didn't even have to cut and paste that!
  4. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    05 Sep '05 21:36
    Originally posted by RazzleBreezer
    Isn't it obvious now that some sort of God exists? I mean Science has not yet been able to disprove religion so far. Also, the earth is so complicated that it can't be chance that it exists. Yeah, yeah I know that perhaps there are trillions of universes with every possibility of life and we just happen to live in the right one, bla bla bla, but if t ...[text shortened]... l enough to create the earth anyway. Can some atheist somewhere explain this puzzling conundrum?
    No, it is not at all obvious that god exists. There are many good reasons to doubt his existence.

    Science does not even try to disprove religion or the existence of god, nor does it need to. It's up to religious people to prove that their god exists, not the other way around.

    If there are many planets capable of harboring life in the universe, and given enough time, it seems almost certain that life would eventually spring up on its own without having to resort to a god giving it a jumpstart.

    I seriously doubt that there is a god. But in any event he is totally superfluous. We have no need to resort to a god to explain anything.
  5. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    05 Sep '05 21:40
    Originally posted by RazzleBreezer
    The theory of evolution is stupid 😛 ; the guy that invented it was a Christian and believed himself that there would have to be a divine creator in the first place
    Darwin was an agnostic.

    Even if you allow for a divine creator, it does not in any way invalidate evolution. Many theists think that god may have started life and then used evolution as a means for guiding it along. Evolution has nothing to say about how life got started.
  6. Standard membertelerion
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    05 Sep '05 21:55
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Because the odds of a human being and all he is composed of, eyes, ears, a brain to think and reason to "evolve"...makes about as much sense as my 2004 Venture just evolved after millions of years...the odds are astronomical.....The odds of creation however makes much more sense to a sane person......🙂
    How many of these mathematically ignorant buggers do I have to squash?
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    05 Sep '05 22:04
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Darwin was an agnostic.

    Even if you allow for a divine creator, it does not in any way invalidate evolution. Many theists think that god may have started life and then used evolution as a means for guiding it along. Evolution has nothing to say about how life got started.
    This "debate" is a bit like the dumb signing to the blind, hoping the deaf will hear enough of the conversation to to explain what they themselves just said back to themselves.... terribly obvious signs.

    I think we all should put our guns down and wait for the Klingons to save us. Lord knows, there's no shortage of "faith" here... Just hope and charity. The Klingons'll bring them, too...

    From Darwin:

    "At present the most usual argument for the existence of an intelligent God is drawn from deep inward conviction and feelings which are experienced by most persons. But it cannot be doubted that Hindoos, Mahomedans and others might argue in the same manner and with equal force in favour of the existence of one God, or of many Gods, or as with the Buddhists of no God...
    ....This argument would be a valid one, if all men of all races had the same inward conviction of the existence of one God; but we know this is very far from being the case. Therefore I cannot see that such inward convictions and feelings are of any weight as evidence of what really exists...."
  8. Joined
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    05 Sep '05 22:05
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    First I have a copy and paste with permission that is a very interesting read from ...

    http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=582&mode=&order=0&thold=0

    The Real “War of the Worlds”

    By Caitlyn Theisen


    For thousands of years, a war has raged between two worlds; one a kingdom of light, the other a kingdom of dar ...[text shortened]... y everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
    nothing but empty propaganda. do you ever inspect your food before digging in?

    it's one straw man and fallacious line of argument after another. the author actually 'argues' from evolution to the claim that "It is no big deal to abort unborn children or to abuse your body with drugs or alcohol." yeah, that's what evolutionists necessarily think. 🙄🙄

    CB, you need to wake up and smell what you're shoveling around.
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    05 Sep '05 22:31
    Originally posted by LemonJello
    CB, you need to wake up and smell what you're shoveling around.
    I have to agree with sourpuss entirely.... and I just hate being so agreeable!
  10. R
    Standard memberRemoved
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    05 Sep '05 22:37
    Originally posted by LemonJello
    nothing but empty propaganda. do you ever inspect your food before digging in?

    it's one straw man and fallacious line of argument after another. the author actually 'argues' from evolution to the claim that "It is no big deal to abort unborn children or to abuse your body with drugs or alcohol." yeah, that's what evolutionists necessarily think. 🙄🙄

    CB, you need to wake up and smell what you're shoveling around.
    I am done debating with pagans...believe what you will....

    Acts 17:32-34
    32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, "We will hear you again on this matter."
    33 So Paul departed from among them.
    34 However, some men joined him and believed, among them Dionysius the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
    (NKJ)

    I never expected all to believe....see ya.....
    🙂
  11. Standard memberno1marauder
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    05 Sep '05 22:43
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    I am done debating with pagans...believe what you will....

    Acts 17:32-34
    32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, "We will hear you again on this matter."
    33 So Paul departed from among them.
    34 However, some men joined him and believed, among them Dionysius the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
    (NKJ)

    I never expected all to believe....see ya.....
    🙂
    Pagans are real a**holes, ain't they?
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    05 Sep '05 22:44
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    I never expected all to believe....see ya.....
    🙂
    'Zis like no1billyboy pegging off down the plank? ... an idle threat?

    Has Mr.Baiter really gone? Is Elvis still in the building? Did Jesus weep?
  13. R.I.P.
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    05 Sep '05 22:49
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Pagans are real a**holes, ain't they?
    Can't you hurry up & finish off those 6 games 😉
  14. R
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    05 Sep '05 23:25
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Pagans are real a**holes, ain't they?
    Boy, you got that right!..especially when someone is trying to pull them out of the fire.
  15. R
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    05 Sep '05 23:261 edit
    Originally posted by widget
    'Zis like no1billyboy pegging off down the plank? ... an idle threat?

    Has Mr.Baiter really gone? Is Elvis still in the building? Did Jesus weep?
    You can only dream.........😲..........
    But I am done with this thread..........😕
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