1. Standard memberRBHILL
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    17 Jan '17 20:051 edit
    The Christ of Arminianism

    (Freewillism)

    Rev. Steven Houck

    The Bible warns us that in the last days in which we live there will be many false Christs-those who claim to be Christ but who are imposters. Jesus said, "Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying I am Christ; and shall deceive many." (Matt. 24:4-5). We who profess to be Christians must take heed. We must be very careful that we are not deceived. Our calling is to trust, love, and follow the true Christ and Him only. We may have nothing to do with the false Christs who are so numerous in our day.

    We know about the Christ of the cults and other religions. He is a good man, a prophet, the first creation of God, a great spirit, a divine idea, or even a god himself. But he is not true and eternal God. He receives his existence from another who is greater than he. He is not the Christ of the Bible. We are not deceived by this Christ. He is a false Christ.

    We know about the Christ of Roman Catholicism. They profess that He is true God. He suffered and died for the forgiveness of sin. He arose again, ascended into heaven, and is coming again. But he is not a complete Savior. The Christ of the Roman Catholics can not save sinners without their own good works and the intercession of priests. He is not the Christ of the Bible. We are not deceived by this Christ. He is a false Christ.

    There is, however, another false Christ who is much more dangerous than the Christ of the cults and the Christ of Roman Catholicism. He has deceived people for many years and he continues to deceive millions. This Christ is so dangerous that, if it were not impossible, he would deceive the very elect (Matt. 24:24). He is the Christ of Arminianism.

    This false Christ is extremely dangerous because in many ways he appears to be the True Christ. They say that he is true God, equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit. They say that he died on the cross to save sinners. They even say that he saves by his grace alone, without the work of man. This Christ will have nothing to do with the Christ of the cults and the Christ of Roman Catholicism.

    But watch out! Be warned! The Christ of Arminianism is not the Christ of the Bible. Do not be fooled!

    1. The Christ of Arminianism - loves every individual person in the world and sincerely desires their salvation.

    The Christ of the Bible - earnestly loves and desires the salvation of only those whom God has unconditionally chosen to salvation. (Ps. 5:5, Ps. 7:11, Ps. 11:5, Matt. 11:27, John 17:9-10, Acts 2:47, Acts 13:48, Rom. 9:10-13, Rom. 9:21-24, Eph. 1:3-4)

    2. The Christ of Arminianism - offers salvation to every sinner and does all in his power to bring them to salvation. His offer and work are often frustrated, for many refuse to come.

    The Christ of the Bible - effectually calls to Himself only the elect and sovereignly brings them to salvation. Not one of them will be lost. (Isa. 55:11, John 5:21, John 6:37-40, John 10:25-30, John 17:2, Phil. 2:13)

    3. The Christ of Arminianism - can not regenerate and save a sinner who does not first choose Christ with his own "free will." All men have a "free will" by which they can either accept or reject Christ. That "free will" may not be violated by Christ.

    The Christ of the Bible - sovereignly regenerates the elect sinner apart from his choice, for without regeneration the spiritually dead sinner can not choose Christ. Faith is not man's contribution to salvation but the gift of Christ which He sovereignly imparts in regeneration. (John 3:3, John 6:44 & 65, John 15:16, Acts 11:18, Rom. 9:16, Eph. 2:1,Eph. 2:8-10, Phil. 1:29, Hebr. 12:2)

    4. The Christ of Arminianism - died on the cross for every individual person and thereby made it possible for every person to be saved. His death, apart from the choice of man, was not able to actually save anyone for many for whom he died are lost.

    The Christ of the Bible - died for only God's elect people and thereby actually obtained salvation for all those for whom He died. His death was a substitutionary satisfaction which actually took away the guilt of His chosen people. (Luke 19:10, John 10:14-15 & 26, Acts 20:28, Rom. 5:10, Eph. 5:25, Hebr. 9:12, I Peter 3:18)

    5. The Christ of Arminianism - loses many whom he has "saved" because they do not continue in faith. Even if he does give them "eternal security," as some say, that security is not based upon his will or work but the choice which the sinner made when he accepted Christ.

    The Christ of the Bible - preserves His chosen people so that they can not lose their salvation but persevere in the faith to the very end. He preserves them by the sovereign electing will of God, the power of His death, and the mighty working of His Spirit. (John 5:24, John 10:26-29, Rom. 8:29-30, Rom. 8:35-39, I Peter 1:2-5, Jude 24-25)

    As you can see, although the Christ of Arminianism and the Christ of the Bible may at first seem to be the same, they are very different. One is a false Christ. The other is the true Christ. One is weak and helpless. He bows before the sovereign "free will" of man. The other is the reigning Lord Who wills what He pleases and sovereignly accomplishes all that He wills.

    If you believe and serve the Christ of Arminianism, you must recognize the fact that you do not serve the Christ of the Bible. You have been deceived! Study the Scriptures and learn of the True Christ. Pray for grace to repent and trust Christ as your sovereign Savior.

    http://www.prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_68.html
  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    18 Jan '17 08:401 edit
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    The Christ of Arminianism

    (Freewillism)

    Rev. Steven Houck

    The Bible warns us that in the last days in which we live there will be many false Christs-those who claim to be Christ but who are imposters. Jesus said, "Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying I am Christ; and shall deceive many." (Matt. 24:4-5). We who pro ...[text shortened]... nt and trust Christ as your sovereign Savior.

    http://www.prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_68.html
    You are bucking up against many of the beliefs of Wesleyan Methodism.

    Are you sure you want to go down this road?

    Are you a Calvinist?

    I am not. I am of the Episcopalian Church of America, which has much in common with both Anglicanism and Wesleyan Methodism.

    I would respectfully ask you to think twice about calling my faith "a belief in a false Christ". We can, and should be able to, discuss this without the insults.
  3. SubscriberSuzianne
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    18 Jan '17 09:23
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    http://www.prca.org/
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    Actually, I should have guessed.

    The Protestant Reformed Churches of America espouse a staunchly Calvinist version of Christianity. And they routinely attack other churches whose belief goes in another direction, away from the strict Calvinist approach. This fight has been raging for years and years, between the Calvinists on one side and the Wesleyans on the other.

    But I am telling you right now, that if you continue in this vein, this "attack-dog" mentality, calling my faith "a belief in a false Christ", then we will have very little to talk about.
  4. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    18 Jan '17 13:03
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    The Christ of Arminianism

    (Freewillism)

    Rev. Steven Houck

    The Bible warns us that in the last days in which we live there will be many false Christs-those who claim to be Christ but who are imposters. Jesus said, "Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying I am Christ; and shall deceive many." (Matt. 24:4-5). We who pro ...[text shortened]... nt and trust Christ as your sovereign Savior.

    http://www.prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_68.html
    So the one's that are predestined will be saved regardless of how they live, and the one's that that are not predestined can seek God with all their heart and never find Him?
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    18 Jan '17 16:42
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    So the one's that are predestined will be saved regardless of how they live, and the one's that that are not predestined can seek God with all their heart and never find Him?
    Strictly speaking, Calvinism has it that after the fall man was/is in a state of total depravity, which in turn supports the idea that one must be predestined to salvation since one can't exercise free will due to total depravity.

    Predestination is misunderstood by many, and the influence of John Calvin's concept of predestination is held by many in the church globally.

    While it is true that God "foreknew" all that would be saved, or lost, that doesn't mean that God "chose" who would be saved or lost, an idea held by many concerning predestination.

    Predestination is about what one becomes after salvation. Predestination is about what God planned for the saved to be transformed into, i.e. the image of Christ.

    A carefull reading of Ephesians 1 makes this clear.
  6. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    18 Jan '17 18:276 edits
    Originally posted by josephw
    Strictly speaking, Calvinism has it that after the fall man was/is in a state of total depravity, which in turn supports the idea that one must be predestined to salvation since one can't exercise free will due to total depravity.

    Predestination is misunderstood by many, and the influence of John Calvin's concept of predestination is held by many in the c ...[text shortened]... ansformed into, i.e. the image of Christ.

    A carefull reading of Ephesians 1 makes this clear.
    So are you essentially saying that only God can 'wake someone up' from their state of 'spiritual death' or 'total depravity' and that none of the choices we make in life have any bearing upon our salvation?

    Also if we have no free will to choose, why do you think God created mankind if he knew most of them would be lost and wouldn't be able to do anything about it?

    If someone has a free will to choose and rejects God, their damnation is upon themselves, if on the other hand that can't choose God surely then it is up to God to save them and their damnation is then on God?
  7. SubscriberSuzianne
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    18 Jan '17 20:021 edit
    Originally posted by josephw
    Strictly speaking, Calvinism has it that after the fall man was/is in a state of total depravity, which in turn supports the idea that one must be predestined to salvation since one can't exercise free will due to total depravity.

    Predestination is misunderstood by many, and the influence of John Calvin's concept of predestination is held by many in the c ...[text shortened]... ansformed into, i.e. the image of Christ.

    A carefull reading of Ephesians 1 makes this clear.
    Also, Romans bears careful attention as well.


    I'll weigh in here as time permits me to. Some of the arguments are somewhat lengthy.
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    18 Jan '17 23:55
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    The Christ of Arminianism

    (Freewillism)

    Rev. Steven Houck

    The Bible warns us that in the last days in which we live there will be many false Christs-those who claim to be Christ but who are imposters. Jesus said, "Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying I am Christ; and shall deceive many." (Matt. 24:4-5). We who pro ...[text shortened]... nt and trust Christ as your sovereign Savior.

    http://www.prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_68.html
    Forget the labels and the fancy talk.

    Jesus Christ said a dozen times or more, that it is those who follow his commandments chief of which is to love your neighbour as yourself ie do good works, live righteously and avoid sin .. it is those who will enter the Kingdom of God.

    The Apostles said many times also .. evildoers and sinners will not enter the Kingdom of God

    What is it about that simple teachings dont you understand?
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    19 Jan '17 01:27
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    So are you essentially saying that only God can 'wake someone up' from their state of 'spiritual death' or 'total depravity' and that none of the choices we make in life have any bearing upon our salvation?

    Also if we have no free will to choose, why do you think God created mankind if he knew most of them would be lost and wouldn't be able to do anyt ...[text shortened]... at can't choose God surely then it is up to God to save them and their damnation is then on God?
    No. You misunderstood my post. That's what Calvinism teaches. Not I.

    Total depravity is a false doctrine. The Word of God does not teach that God chose some to be lost and others to be saved. That's not what predestination means. I explained what predestination means. Perhaps you should reread my post.
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    19 Jan '17 01:301 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Forget the labels and the fancy talk.

    Jesus Christ said a dozen times or more, that it is those who follow his commandments chief of which is to love your neighbour as yourself ie do good works, live righteously and avoid sin .. it is those who will enter the Kingdom of God.

    The Apostles said many times also .. evildoers and sinners will not enter the Kingdom of God

    What is it about that simple teachings dont you understand?
    You should have read the OP before making this ignorant response. Your ignorant response has nothing to do with the topic of the OP.
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    19 Jan '17 01:32
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Also, Romans bears careful attention as well.


    I'll weigh in here as time permits me to. Some of the arguments are somewhat lengthy.
    Well, I can hardly wait! I hope you haven't misread my post as it appears Fmj has. 😉
  12. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    19 Jan '17 07:192 edits
    Originally posted by josephw
    No. You misunderstood my post. That's what Calvinism teaches. Not I.

    Total depravity is a false doctrine. The Word of God does not teach that God chose some to be lost and others to be saved. That's not what predestination means. I explained what predestination means. Perhaps you should reread my post.
    So you don't believe this that you posted in the OP? Is this what Calvinism teaches or what you believe? Are you saying that God did not decide that those who are not part of the 'elect' should go lost?

    The Christ of the Bible - effectually calls to Himself only the elect and sovereignly brings them to salvation. Not one of them will be lost. (Isa. 55:11, John 5:21, John 6:37-40, John 10:25-30, John 17:2, Phil. 2:13)

    The Christ of the Bible - sovereignly regenerates the elect sinner apart from his choice, for without regeneration the spiritually dead sinner can not choose Christ. Faith is not man's contribution to salvation but the gift of Christ which He sovereignly imparts in regeneration. (John 3:3, John 6:44 & 65, John 15:16, Acts 11:18, Rom. 9:16, Eph. 2:1,Eph. 2:8-10, Phil. 1:29, Hebr. 12:2)

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    19 Jan '17 08:251 edit
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    So you don't believe this that you posted in the OP? Is this what Calvinism teaches or what you believe? Are you saying that God did not decide that those who are not part of the 'elect' should go lost?
    Fmj, I did not post the OP (opening post). If you please, go back and read my reply to your reply to the OP.
  14. Standard memberRajk999
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    19 Jan '17 11:27
    Originally posted by josephw
    You should have read the OP before making this ignorant response. Your ignorant response has nothing to do with the topic of the OP.
    The opening post and the ones that follow from several posters, represent several versions of doctrines all of which do not properly and fully preach the doctrine of Christ.

    The ignorant are those who do not understand, neither do they preach, neither can they follow the teachings of Christ.
  15. Standard memberRajk999
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    19 Jan '17 11:34
    Originally posted by josephw
    No. You misunderstood my post. That's what Calvinism teaches. Not I.

    Total depravity is a false doctrine. The Word of God does not teach that God chose some to be lost and others to be saved. That's not what predestination means. I explained what predestination means. Perhaps you should reread my post.
    The Word of God does in fact preach that some are lost. Many are called and few are chosen. Judas Iscariot was both CHOSEN and was CALLED but he was LOST.

    In addition there are many parts of the Apostles teachings that speak clearly of Christians SAINTS who do not or have not followed the teachings of Christ who will not inherit the kingdom of God. These were both chosen and eventually lost.
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