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4 edits
Originally posted by SuzianneOffence was intended. Your beliefs are offensive and you just told me that I am due
Despite your ignorant and frankly offensive diatribe, I might remind you that your opinion in this is strictly your opinion, and does not affect me at all.
EDIT:What's sad is that you will probably find some way to twist your situation around in your mind to figure that you are being mistreatedHow could I possibly have known this in advance?
to spend an eternity being tortured and will deserve it simply for not believing in your
god (and worshipping it) based on the worst possible reasons and evidence.
THAT is deeply offensive. I hate your beliefs... you and your religion seem to hate me.
And ignorant of what?
To be ignorant I would have to be showing a lack of knowledge of something.
Given that I am stating that you don't have evidence to justify believing in a god and
that you are saying that you don't and can't have evidence of a god then I don't see
how you can complain that my knowledge of the subject is lacking as we agree that
there is no evidence of god (or an afterlife or of souls ect).
However, I would remind you that your opinion equally has no effect on me.
I am not talking about opinions, you are.
The point about being objective and rational and having EVIDENCE is that you get past
opinion and simply go looking for truth, reality.
I am right not because I say so but because the EVIDENCE supports my position and not
yours and because the laws of logic and reason dictate that my position is correct and
yours is wrong.
Reality is the arbiter of truth.
I realise that and so I base my beliefs on what reality indicates is true.
I weight those beliefs based on the strength of the evidence and thus the level of uncertainty.
And change those beliefs if or when new evidence arises that alters the probabilities of what is true.
The evidence indicates that you are wrong. period.
You choose to believe despite this.
Thus you don't care about truth, and you admit to not caring about the evidence.
EDIT:
Your Edit...
[quote]What's sad is that you will probably find some way to twist your situation around in your mind to
figure that you are being mistreated
How could I possibly have known this in advance?[/b][/quote]
Well the fact that I have made this argument before might have something to do with it.
that and somewhere inside you might realise that this is a perfectly valid argument.
If a policeman came up to you in the street one day and shot you, and as you lay dying told you that
you had been killed for committing the crime of wearing yellow on a Tuesday in March and that while this law
had never been written down or told to anyone you should have guessed what it was...
You would be (briefly) pissed that you had been treated so unfairly and unreasonably.
Substituting god for the policeman, eternal torture for shooting you, and gods laws for the crime of wearing yellow
doesn't make the scenario any less fair or reasonable.
EDIT's: for SPAG and typos... spent too long without a computer my typing's shot to hell.
2 edits
Originally posted by SuzianneOk...so you do believe in a ("T"he) lake of fire; next question (given that from your POV the lake of fire is where I'll be going): will I be gnashing and wailing in that place forever, with no respite? (and yes...scriptural details do bore me...I'm interested in your notion of the lake of fire (wrt to your own idiosyncratic interpretation of scripture))
Answering your question directly, with no assumption made as to any probable follow-up, and with no explanation, as that will probably just bore you, I will say yes.
Originally posted by SuzianneYour assumption was correct.
I did naturally assume that what he meant was the lake of fire as described in Revelation. And no, that picture is not of that.
And oh, btw, I do recognize a volcano's caldera (that's what I assume it is, anyways). I embrace science, unlike our friend, RJH.
Originally posted by SuzianneI do not believe the lake of fire exists ..yet. But it will, and it will be no ordinary fire, it will be something that destroys spirit. It will destroy demons and Satan and all who will end up there. But they will burn up and exist no more...
I did naturally assume that what he meant was the lake of fire as described in Revelation. And no, that picture is not of that.
And oh, btw, I do recognize a volcano's caldera (that's what I assume it is, anyways). I embrace science, unlike our friend, RJH.
The everlasting punishment is separation from God forever because they will not exist, they will be ashes.
This agrees with God's compassion and love, He is not a sadist. Cancer/sin is destroyed, not kept alive to suffer.
Just my opine, but there are scripture verses that agree with this position.
John 3:16 for one says that whoever believes will have everlasting life. Unbelievers would need everlasting life to suffer forever.
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
NKJV
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Originally posted by checkbaiterI see...so is fire required to destroy spirits? Ok ... so what things that spirits are made of are flammable?
I do not believe the lake of fire exists ..yet. But it will, and it will be no ordinary fire, it will be something that destroys spirit. It will destroy demons and Satan and all who will end up there. But they will burn up and exist no more...
The everlasting punishment is separation from God forever because they will not exist, they will be ashes.
Thi y begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
NKJV
Originally posted by AgergYou are assuming that soul and spirit are one and the same? The soul is simply breath life. When one dies, that life is gone. Animals have soul. The myth that a soul lives on, is just that..myth.
I see...so is fire required to destroy souls? If so, what is it about souls that makes them flammable?
Unbelievers are only body and soul, no spirit.
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Originally posted by checkbaiterOk...I edited it such that "soul" was replaced with "spirit" but not quick enough 😛 ...so what part of spirits are flammable then (remember, you said the fire will destroy them)?
You are assuming that soul and spirit are one and the same? The soul is simply breath life. When one dies, that life is gone. Animals have soul. The myth that a soul lives on, is just that..myth.
Unbelievers are only body and soul, no spirit.
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Originally posted by checkbaiterNope...just a person with an informed opinion about what will and what won't burn in magical lakes of fire. But at any rate, you must surely have some inkling as to which components of spirit things burn (and which don't)...otherwise how can anyone take your assertion that this so-called fire will destroy spirits? 😕
If I knew that and how, then I would be God,no?
Any idea how hot this fire would be? (I assume it would be hotter than the melting point of spirit matter - and such a temperature is roughly...?)
Originally posted by AgergI know you are not interested, except trying to find something to ridicule...search the scriptures and look for yourself, it might do you some good...goodnight...🙂
Well surely you must have some inkling as to which components of spirit things burn (and which don't)...otherwise how can anyone take your assertion that this so-called fire will destroy spirits? 😕
Any idea how hot this fire would be? (I assume it would be hotter than the melting point of spirit matter - [b]and such a temperature is roughly...?)[/b]
3 edits
Originally posted by checkbaiterScriptures are useless - they don't explain anything in the sort of detail or rigour I would like. If you think I'm ridiculing you just because I'm probing you a little further than you'd like then perhaps some part of you knows this stuff you believe, when you stop and think about it for a moment, is completely bloody ridiculous!
I know you are not interested, except trying to find something to ridicule...search the scriptures and look for yourself, it might do you some good...goodnight...🙂
Heed that muffled voice in the background checkbaiter, it's your sanity trying, desperately, to get your attention :]
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Originally posted by AgergIt's called cognitive dissonance.
Scriptures are useless - they don't explain anything in the sort of detail or rigour I would like. If you think I'm ridiculing you just because I'm probing you a little further than you'd like then perhaps some part of you knows this stuff you believe, when you stop and think about it for a moment, is completely bloody ridiculous!
Heed that muffled voice ...[text shortened]... the background checkbaiter, it's your sanity trying, desperately, to get your attention :]
Knowing that what you believe is ridiculous but still believing it...
Also be careful with the probing... It's what got all those extraterrestrials in trouble ;-)
Originally posted by AgergYou've stumbled upon the one idea in Revelation that I'm not so sure about. Who goes to the like of fire, for how long, these details I'm not exactly sure about. It has been my contention for years that only the high-ranking evil ones will end up there, the Beast and the False Prophet, and eventually Satan, after the thousand years of his binding in the bottomless pit and release again onto the earth, will end up there as well. But I always felt that those who were not saved by the blood of Christ would simply die a second death and would be no more and would not go on to any reward.
Ok...so you do believe in a ("T"he) lake of fire; next question (given that from your POV the lake of fire is where I'll be going): will I be gnashing and wailing in that place forever, with no respite? (and yes...scriptural details do bore me...I'm interested in your notion of the lake of fire (wrt to your own idiosyncratic interpretation of scripture))
But then there's all the mention of others who will be cast in there as well. Rev. 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." This is after the judgement. And there's more in Rev. 21:8, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death".
There is no doubt that some portions of the Bible are not literal, meant to be read as parable, or as a lesson. Whether verses like Rev. 21:8 are in this category, I don't know. Whether those cast into the lake of fire merely die a second death and cease to be or whether they are meant to be tortured for all eternity, I don't know. My feeling was that those would simply die and not suffer eternal torture because that seems excessive, especially for a loving God. But we are also told that He is a vengeful God and that He cannot abide sin. So I'm still undecided on this part. I think next time I get a chance, I'll ask my priest about this.