Originally posted by avalanchethecat Here you're just twisting logic and entwining unrelated issues. Atheism says nothing about the origins of the universe, or populations, or morals or ethics or social conduct or political systems or trustworthiness of family/friends. Is only about belief in God. Theist - believes in god. Atheist - doesn't. It's so simple, so black and white. Clinging to the belief that it is not is simply denying the meaning of the word.
Please my reply to Ghost of a Duke on page three. All human beings share belief (or trust) as one of three means of perception.
Originally posted by C Hess It is always you believers who can't fathom how someone can't possibly believe in the same superstitious nonsense that you do, and worse, refuse to dance by your pipe in the political and social games that ensue. If you tell me that I can or cannot do this or that because you've fallen for, what appears to me an outlandishly ridiculous, evidentially unsubstan ...[text shortened]... a disbelief in theistic claims. Everything else about us is motivated by different concerns.[/b]
I’ve not said anyone has to believe in the same thing I do. I’m simply pointing out the
gyrations Atheist go through to exclude their notions about God as being a defining
characteristic of their self-defining existence. It is almost as if they strongly wish to take
no ownership of their stance whatsoever with respect to if God is real or not, to reject out
right would be owning their stance! To say they have no beliefs towards God is a cheap
copout in my opinion. They want their cake and eat it too, without actually taking a
personal stand on the specific topic God.
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke "Thanks for the clarity of your position. I think where we differ, is that i only relate my atheism to a disbelief in God...."
We agree. My reply on page two simply stated the fact that "We all share belief or faith as a third mean of perception based on confidence in the authority of someone whose vera ...[text shortened]... t or military officer, surgeon, attorney. or God Himself]. Atheists believe but not in God."
Hmm, how to explain.
I am a man with many hats. My 'atheist hat' is only put on when i discuss whether or not i think God exists. (Which these days only really happens on this site). I also have a 'Lochness Monster hat' which i (rarely) put on when discussing whether or not the creature really exists. - My point is that these hats have no function or significance when they are off my head.
If you had said 'humans' believe, then perhaps i would concede that all human beings have a set of beliefs that enable them to understand and engage with the world around them. It is your attempt though to link these beliefs to 'Atheism' in particular (just one very minor hat in my life) that i have a problem with. For theists 'God' is a very important hat which they never take off. This is not true for atheism. I only put on my atheist hat to say 'there is no God' and then quick as larry the hat is off my head and shoved in the drawer.
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby Please my reply to Ghost of a Duke on page three. All human beings share belief (or trust) as one of three means of perception.
Please re-read my reply to your reply to Ghost of a Duke on page three. Keep re-reading until you understand.
Originally posted by KellyJay You don't know what a baby believes or thinks.
Babies are incapable of believing anything. Which means they don't believe in god and are therefore atheists, albeit implicit atheists. If they subsequently grow up to be theists, it is because they were taught to do so.
Originally posted by KellyJay Agnostics is not a choice, or one you like?
Everyone in the world is either a theist or an atheist. If you do not self-identify as a theist, then, by default, you are an atheist (without theism). It is necessarily one or the other. Agnosticism is not a separate category. It is a qualification to either theism or atheism, as in agnostic theist or agnostic atheist. Googlefudge explained this in an earlier post, but you seem to have not learned the lesson.
Originally posted by KellyJay I’ve not said anyone has to believe in the same thing I do. I’m simply pointing out the
gyrations Atheist go through to exclude their notions about God as being a defining
characteristic of their self-defining existence. It is almost as if they strongly wish to take
no ownership of their stance whatsoever with respect to if God is real or not, to reject ...[text shortened]... their cake and eat it too, without actually taking a
personal stand on the specific topic God.
I believe in fruit faries. Because of my belief I think we should teach kids in schools everywhere the fruit fairy creation as an alternative to more scientific explanations, and my fruit fairy guide tells me to hate on all heterosexuals, and so must you because my fruit fairy friend says so. What's that? You're an afruitfaryist? That's as much a belief as my fruitfaryist beliefs. You saying otherwise is just a cop out in my opinion.
Can you honestly not see how silly that is? An atheist is to theism, what an afruitfaryist is to fruitfaryism.
Originally posted by C Hess I believe in fruit faries. Because of my belief I think we should teach kids in schools everywhere the fruit fairy creation as an alternative to more scientific explanations, and my fruit fairy guide tells me to hate on all heterosexuals, and so must you because my fruit fairy friend says so. What's that? You're an afruitfaryist? That's as much a belief as my ...[text shortened]... ly not see how silly that is? An atheist is to theism, what an afruitfaryist is to fruitfaryism.
Yes, I think some Atheist will bend over backwards to now own their beliefs.
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby [b]atheism is a beliefThread 154278 (33 Pages)
Original post by apathist [on 13 Jul '13 14:01.Last moved 614 days 14 hours and 38 minutes ago]
"There are those who believe that atheism is best defined as a lack of belief in gods. Well, babies and rocks don't believe in gods.
By using dictionaries and encyclopedias, it t ...[text shortened]... ______________________________
Your opinions, speculations and/or latest insights pro or con?[/b]
Bob,
Would you please try to get your mind round something: atheism is not Christianity with a God-shaped hole in it.
Originally posted by C Hess I believe in fruit faries. Because of my belief I think we should teach kids in schools everywhere the fruit fairy creation as an alternative to more scientific explanations, and my fruit fairy guide tells me to hate on all heterosexuals, and so must you because my fruit fairy friend says so. What's that? You're an afruitfaryist? That's as much a belief as my ...[text shortened]... ly not see how silly that is? An atheist is to theism, what an afruitfaryist is to fruitfaryism.
Atheism rejects God and gods, it is quite simple and as it does so it colors how all other
things will be viewed and measured. Fruit fairies not so much.
Originally posted by KellyJay Atheism rejects God and gods, it is quite simple and as it does so it colors how all other
things will be viewed and measured. Fruit fairies not so much.
Atheism pretty much rules out supernaturalism. But beyond that, everything is fair game.
Originally posted by KellyJay I agree there are many things I don't give a 2nd thought too, but God isn't one of them.
Atheist define themselves by this lack of belief in God, or out right rejection of Him. If it were
so meaningless to them that they had no view on the topic, there wouldn't be a term
describing themselves that they spend so much time defending.
Some atheists don't 'spend any time defending' atheism whatsoever. They are interested in the subject of human spirituality, and they see no reason to deny they are atheists if someone asks the question.
You should not assume that, because someone says, 'I am an atheist' that this term is their preferred way of describing themselves. Better to ask what they believe affirmatively and see if they can give you anything. If no, maybe they DO identify primarily as an 'atheist'.
"atheism is a belief"
14 Aug '15 09:431 edit
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