Originally posted by @apathistIf you are asking if I was raised a Christian so I'm a Christian, no. I was not raised as an
Kelly, our culture indoctrinated us into the local religion. Mormons come from utah; muslims come from the middle east, hindus come from india. etc
Does this not factor into your thinking?
anything, so I suppose agnostic is as close to a label I could wear with respect to my
upbringing. I didn't become a Christian till I was 25, I didn't start talking to God until I got
into so much trouble I had to say one of those, "God if you get me out of this..." prayers.
The world is filled with people who fit your description I suppose, but that doesn't say
much when it comes to my faith. I believe in a God who is real, this removes humans from
the equations of local religions. Reason being you can be raised in a church and miss
God, even if you sing all the songs, say amen at the right place, do two services a week,
and so on. We don't become Christian by osmosis, its encounter with God through Christ.
Originally posted by @apathistWhat do you use to separate truth from lies? How do you know?
I don't hold any faith belief. I appreciate science very much, but I'm aware of the limits. Science is a useful [b]tool.
But you are asking about my paganism, I think. I believe minds exist, and this is something science has a hard time with. Anyway, it does not seem unreasonable to me to suppose that perhaps the biosphere of our planet is sufficie ...[text shortened]...
A more direct answer: introspection. I am a part of nature on earth, so I just need to listen.[/b]
Originally posted by @apathistThen in your POV Earth is alive and self directs evolution? No deity required?
I don't hold any faith belief. I appreciate science very much, but I'm aware of the limits. Science is a useful [b]tool.
But you are asking about my paganism, I think. I believe minds exist, and this is something science has a hard time with. Anyway, it does not seem unreasonable to me to suppose that perhaps the biosphere of our planet is sufficie ...[text shortened]...
A more direct answer: introspection. I am a part of nature on earth, so I just need to listen.[/b]
Originally posted by @kellyjayI'm a pragmatist. Truth is an ideal we attempt to approach using evidence and reason. But small 't' truth is offered as current knowledge. Truth is knowledge. Knowledge is malleable.
What do you use to separate truth from lies? How do you know?
'Evidence' and 'reason' are two huge subjects.And the subject of knowledge is an entire branch of modern philosophy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth#Coherence_theory
Originally posted by @fabianfnasThat is not a good approach. Atheism involves a decision about particular claims. Babies haven't made that decision. Babies are without theism, and are also without atheism.
We are all born as atheists. Even Jesus Christ himself was born an atheist. It's just natural to be an atheist.
Rocks don't believe in god, but that doesn't make them atheistic. We don't win by default.
Originally posted by @apathistWe are all creatures of faith and beliefs. Walking across a yard you believe it is the safe
I assume you care about truth - you want to know what is real and what is not.
How is that served by faith belief and stories of myth?
thing to do. I was walking in Alaska once with a friend we were hiking. I fell into a hole that
I didn't see, the tundra we were walking on had covered the hole in the ground and I
stepped on it. We all want truth, at least I think we do, some just may want to hear what it
is they want to hear.
I believe most of the Bible is literal, I think God created everything and holds it all together
by the power of His Word. I often wonder why would a God who is all powerful, all
knowing, eternal in time and space, want to do with humans. It has be like herding cats
for Him, and the way this is all setup too. Every one of us can attach ourselves to some
belief system and walk it out, be true or not.
I do think love is the central theme with God, in a world as ugly as ours where people care
more about themselves than the next guy, He finds a few He can call His own. I think the
vast majority of us are wandering in the dark, missing out on the Light of the world.
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Originally posted by @apathistYou seem to be about the earth, do you ever wonder you might be worshiping the creation,
I assume you care about truth - you want to know what is real and what is not.
How is that served by faith belief and stories of myth?
and missing out on the creator?
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Originally posted by @apathistExactly, babies hasn't done the decision, therefore it is an atheist. When the baby and grown up, he can (1) make his own decision, or he can (2) just follow his parents decision. (1) means that the decision has been taken consciously and seriously. However I think (2) is much more common.
That is not a good approach. Atheism involves a decision about particular claims. Babies haven't made that decision. Babies are without theism, and are also without atheism.
Rocks don't believe in god, but that doesn't make them atheistic. We don't win by default.
Or do you really think that every new born baby is christian from day one? Like 360 thousand babies are coming to this world fully christians? In India, China, Iran, Mongolia...? And then, magically turn muslim, hinduist, taoist, buddhist or whatever, and only some are keeping his new born religion, christianity? Does this sound logical to you?
I say every new born baby is atheist, meaning that it doesn't believe in a god, in any god at all, and only later make a decision according to (1) or (2) above.
Never heard a new born baby utter his first word as 'halleluja', never...
What do rocks has anything to do with anything here? Show me a christian rock, and perhaps I will change my opinion. But not until then...
Originally posted by @fabianfnasLike you know!
We are all born as atheists. Even Jesus Christ himself was born an atheist. It's just natural to be an atheist.
Originally posted by @kellyjayNot much. If reality requires a creator then so does the creator - if it is real! There is no getting around that logical fact. Your approach doesn't resolve the issue at all. Turtles all the way down, as they say.
You seem to be about the earth, do you ever wonder you might be worshiping the creation, and missing out on the creator?
But maybe our reality WAS created by a sentient entity. Evidence? None that cannot be refuted with 101 logic and reasoning skills. That's why they call it faith belief. Leprechauns and santa claus; zeus and shiva. God, yahwey, allah. Faith belief is an unreliable method for determining truth.