1. Joined
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    14 Oct '09 00:20
    –noun 1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.

    Okay. So if one thinks that they are merely the sum total of all that they have experienced through their senses, then their life is scripted.

    If ones' life is only scripted, then that one has their head in a box, so to speak.

    If ones' head is in a box, then one cannot think outside the box.

    How can a scripted mind think outside the box, if there is nothing outside the box?

    Since there is nothing more to think about except that which is experienced through the senses, the atheist is unable to think outside that box; because his or her thinking is limited by a finite number of experiences.
  2. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    14 Oct '09 00:27
    Originally posted by josephw
    –noun 1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.

    Okay. So if one thinks that they are merely the sum total of all that they have experienced through their senses, then their life is scripted.

    If ones' life is only scripted, then that one has their head in a box, so to speak.

    If ones' head is in a box, then one cannot think outside the box.

    ...[text shortened]... nk outside that box; because his or her thinking is limited by a finite number of experiences.
    Did you get that off of a bubble gum card or a chick tract? I could easily say the same thing about theists. If there is an omnipotent and omniscient creator, then their life is scripted.

    I don't agree with your definition of atheism. Or I think that it's incomplete at least. If you want a one sentence definition, I would say:

    atheism: Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
  3. Joined
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    14 Oct '09 00:43
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Did you get that off of a bubble gum card or a chick tract? I could easily say the same thing about theists. If there is an omnipotent and omniscient creator, then their life is scripted.

    I don't agree with your definition of atheism. Or I think that it's incomplete at least. If you want a one sentence definition, I would say:

    atheism: Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
    No no no. You are missing it.

    If the universe is empty, i.e. no creator, then we are just dust.

    Our lives are meaningless and purposeless if the end is nothingness.

    That places us in a box. We cannot think outside the box of our sensory experiences if all we are is destined to nothingness.

    If there is nothing beyond our sensory experience, then there is nothing more to think about than what we experience.

    That puts our thinking in a box!
  4. Joined
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    14 Oct '09 00:48
    Originally posted by josephw
    Our lives are meaningless and purposeless if the end is nothingness.
    Not true at all.
  5. Joined
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    14 Oct '09 00:57
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Not true at all.
    Not in that sense it isn't.

    But within the context of the point I'm trying to make it is true.

    I can't fathom the idea of nonexistence. It is hollow. It has no meaning. It is cruel.
  6. e4
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    14 Oct '09 01:41
    Quote

    "I can't fathom the idea of nonexistence...."

    So invent a God - that's what everyone else has been doing.
  7. Joined
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    14 Oct '09 02:21
    Originally posted by josephw
    Not in that sense it isn't.

    But within the context of the point I'm trying to make it is true.

    I can't fathom the idea of nonexistence. It is hollow. It has no meaning. It is cruel.
    Not in that sense it isn't.

    Not in any sense.

    But within the context of the point I'm trying to make it is true.

    So why don't you actually make your point? You haven't made a coherent one yet.

    I can't fathom the idea of nonexistence. It is hollow. It has no meaning. It is cruel.

    I'm sure there are a lot of things you can't fathom. Many, if not most, people can't fathom nonexistence. That doesn't make it untrue.

    You ceasing to exist after you die doesn't make your life meaningless. Only the way you choose to live your life can make your life meaningless.
  8. Joined
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    14 Oct '09 03:48
    Atheism is thinking inside the box.
  9. Standard memberblack beetle
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    14 Oct '09 04:40
    Originally posted by josephw
    –noun 1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.

    Okay. So if one thinks that they are merely the sum total of all that they have experienced through their senses, then their life is scripted.

    If ones' life is only scripted, then that one has their head in a box, so to speak.

    If ones' head is in a box, then one cannot think outside the box.

    ...[text shortened]... nk outside that box; because his or her thinking is limited by a finite number of experiences.
    This is what happens when the prayers displace the intelligent debate and rationality is sacrificed in the name of Religion and DogmašŸ˜µ
  10. Cape Town
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    14 Oct '09 05:39
    Originally posted by josephw
    No no no. You are missing it.
    If the universe is empty, i.e. no creator, then we are just dust.
    Our lives are meaningless and purposeless if the end is nothingness.
    That places us in a box. We cannot think outside the box of our sensory experiences if all we are is destined to nothingness.
    If there is nothing beyond our sensory experience, then there is nothing more to think about than what we experience.
    That puts our thinking in a box!
    There are a couple of things you seem to be choosing to ignore or misrepresent in your logic.
    Lets break it down. There are two possibilities:
    1. There is a God. Everyone can think outside the box.
    2. There is no God. If this is the case, then according to you, nobody whether atheist or Christian can think outside the box.
    Do you see that whether or not God actually exists, there is no difference between the abilities of atheists or Christians when it comes to thinking outside the box. Yet even though you correctly notice that in the above post in two of your other posts you imply that atheists in particular are restricted because of their beliefs. This is clearly untrue and must be a mistake on your part or a deliberate attempt to insult us atheists. Will you admit that you made an error?

    As for the supposed logic itself can you please explain how the existence of a creator makes a difference to either our ability to think outside the box or to whether or not life has meaning. Do you honestly believe that the only meaning your life has is in its end? What 'end' is that? Is your life finite or infinite? If it is finite, then will you not still be destined for nothingness? If it is infinite, then there is no end, and what is its purpose again?
  11. Joined
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    14 Oct '09 08:111 edit
    *points up* All very good questions.

    You see, whether one is an athiest or a thiest, one cannot avoid the philosophical possibilities inherent in each position. One is not a heretic just because one questions religious belief. One is not a godless nonbeliever just because one questions the existence of a God.

    What is important to me is what I sense and how it relates to me. I care not a whit that other believe the same as I; they are entitled to their positions. What's more, their positions may be quite sound, and that's fine and dandy to me.
  12. Standard memberblack beetle
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    14 Oct '09 08:51
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    There are a couple of things you seem to be choosing to ignore or misrepresent in your logic.
    Lets break it down. There are two possibilities:
    1. There is a God. Everyone can think outside the box.
    2. There is no God. If this is the case, then according to you, nobody whether atheist or Christian can think outside the box.
    Do you see that whether or n ...[text shortened]... tined for nothingness? If it is infinite, then there is no end, and what is its purpose again?
    And this is what happens when the intelligent debate displace ill-considered thoughts and dogmatism is sacrificed in the name of Reason and reasonablenessšŸ˜µ
  13. Melbourne, Australia
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    14 Oct '09 09:01
    Originally posted by josephw
    –noun 1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.

    Okay. So if one thinks that they are merely the sum total of all that they have experienced through their senses, then their life is scripted.

    If ones' life is only scripted, then that one has their head in a box, so to speak.

    If ones' head is in a box, then one cannot think outside the box.

    ...[text shortened]... nk outside that box; because his or her thinking is limited by a finite number of experiences.
    Ditto everything everyone else has said, plus ...

    I don't get your first leap of logic.

    Okay you say, so if one thinks that they are merely the sum total of all that they have experienced.
    Hang on, where does atheism equate to us all being the sum total of everything we have experienced. I thought atheism was about a belief in no gods.

    Secondly you go on to claim that since all we apparently believe about our life is the total of our experiences that therefore our life must be scripted. Do you mean we have no free will? I don't get the leap here - why does atheism lead to my life being scripted. I feel pretty free myself actually ... free to believe whatever the hell I like, such as no god or gods in control of my life.
    I like that idea.
    I like being free of the control of gods.

    Can you explain your logic in some more detail because from where I'm sitting it makes you look particularly idiotic ...
  14. Standard memberAgerg
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    14 Oct '09 09:241 edit
    Originally posted by josephw
    No no no. You are missing it.

    If the universe is empty, i.e. no creator, then we are just dust.

    Our lives are meaningless and purposeless if the end is nothingness.

    That places us in a box. We cannot think outside the box of our sensory experiences if all we are is destined to nothingness.

    If there is nothing beyond our sensory experience, then t ...[text shortened]... ere is nothing more to think about than what we experience.

    That puts our thinking in a box!
    Just want to add 2 more little points, and let me define "extended universe" to be the one we all know and love in addition to heaven, hell, whatever else...

    If the universe is empty, i.e. no creator, then we are just dust
    Suppose there is an extended universe, furthermore assume your god wasn't created by another entity then...
    If the extended universe is empty, i.e. no creator, then we are just stuff (replacing 'dust' with 'stuff' since the former implies material)

    Our lives are meaningless and purposeless if the end is nothingness
    What is the meaning, purpose of our lives otherwise? Glorify God???...and what about in the context of an extended universe, what is our purpose there?
  15. Joined
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    14 Oct '09 18:48
    Okay. So I'm not getting through. I'll try another tact.

    Atheism denies the existence of a creator. So, it's twin, evolution, fills the void.

    If either is true, then perception of reality resides only in what one knows through the senses.

    That being the case, things such as law and morality are merely inventions of humans and is therefore subject to speculation.

    One is then free to exercise they're will in any way they choose, and when all is said and done it won't matter one wit.

    As a matter of fact we could just as easily exterminate the human race and wait for another 500,000 years to pass and see if nature can create a better species. What difference does it make. We're all dead just the same.

    In a box.
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