Originally posted by twhitehead"And what do you mean by 'if the dates changes from time to time'? Are you saying our dating methods change their results? Are you saying dates somehow morph into other dates?"
I have no idea.
[b]If you are defining it as something more than currently obsevable how can you reject anything including flying toasters from being a cause?
I can't. I can only say with great certainty, that flying toasters are highly unlikely to have created the universe.
If you are saying that it never had a beginning, what is it about t dating methods change their results? Are you saying dates somehow morph into other dates?
[/b]If you have an eternal universe that stops starts some how, or it simply always
was as it is now, than you have a dating issue with things that date the various
parts of it that do not reflect eternal numbers. If the dating method shows some
date that we can see in our life times, those more than likely are trustworthy, but
all the dates outside of our life time or recorded history would all be suspect if
we say the universe is eternal or there are causes that can resets dates.
Kelly
Originally posted by twhitehead[/b]So going back to ruling out a creator, if you don't know, how can you rule out
I have no idea.
[b]If you are defining it as something more than currently obsevable how can you reject anything including flying toasters from being a cause?
I can't. I can only say with great certainty, that flying toasters are highly unlikely to have created the universe.
If you are saying that it never had a beginning, what is it about t dating methods change their results? Are you saying dates somehow morph into other dates?
anything?
Kelly
Why not just waste our time with the joy of chess. These scientific theories are
limited in truth because of man's limited knowledge. The Holy Bible gives all
the true answers to your questions about the beginnings when time was created
by God, who has always existed, having no beginning or ending. Without this
book, we would have no way of knowing why anything existed, including us.
If you really want to know the truth, I recommed the study of the Holy Bible.
This does not mean merely reading it. It is like playing chess, you don't get
better without study and consulting masters and grandmasters. This is also
true with learning about God. You must consult those with more knowledge and
understanding, but beware of false teachers. Check everything they say with
the Holy Bible. Don't just consult one teacher. One example is the teaching
that the Messiah was crucified on Friday (erronously called Good Friday) and
arose from his grave on Sunday morning. Upon closer study, it becomes clear
that he was crucified on wednesday (the middle of the week). This fulfills the
prophecy, given by the Messiah himself, that he would be in the grave three
days and three nights. I hope you enjoy the study of this wonderful book,
provided by the loving creator of our universe to provide us with the answers
that we may never be able to understand on our own. Although God is invisible
to us, something like electricty and the wind, we can know he exists by his
creation. In the New Testament of the Holy Bible, you will read why God
created man. Enough said.
with love,
rjhinds
Originally posted by KellyJayI am afraid that I fail to follow your logic here. Most dating methods are based on things that are already known not to be eternal, why should they ever reflect eternal numbers?
If you have an eternal universe that stops starts some how, or it simply always
was as it is now, than you have a dating issue with things that date the various
parts of it that do not reflect eternal numbers.
If the dating method shows some date that we can see in our life times, those more than likely are trustworthy,
Why?
but all the dates outside of our life time or recorded history would all be suspect if we say the universe is eternal or there are causes that can resets dates.
Kelly
Why does recorded history make a dating method more reliable? When did I ever claim that the universe resets dates? What does it mean to reset a date?
Originally posted by RJHindsThats easy to say, but it doesn't make any sense, so it isn't an answer. How can an entity have 'always existed' if that entity created time itself? Is there some other time dimension?
The Holy Bible gives all the true answers to your questions about the beginnings when time was created by God, who has always existed, having no beginning or ending.
According to the Holy Bible, God created everything we use to measure time.
He created the sun, the moon, the stars, and the earth (which he caused to
rotate and tilted at just the right degree - according to scientist). I don,t
know very much about science, but I believe the human DNA code is like
a computer program, that determines how we reproduce others. God was
the supreme programmer. Our first ancestors would not listen to God on
how best to maintain our body. He warned them that they would die if they
ate the wrong things. When one of them ate the wrong thing and did not
die immediately, the others were convinced that God was not telling them
the truth and wanted to deny them all the the things they desired.
A programmer knows, even if he writes a perfect program, that something
can happen when the computer is not maintained properly that can cause his
perfect program to lose or gain erroneous data that will cause unexpected
results. I am not a teacher, but I hope this makes sense to you. If not,
I am sorry for my poor ability with words and my lack of knowledge.
I have also heard that there are some scientist that have discovered things
that make them think there may be 9 or 10 dimensions. Anyway, God
created what we know as time and he may exist in other dimensions.
There are many people that believe the study of math, science, history,
or some other subject doesn't make any sense. I knew them when I was
in school. They simply had no interest in that particular subject so it made
no sense to them. We enjoy playing a game of chess; but there are many
more people that it does not make sense and look upon us as simply
wasting our time that we could spend on the study of the Holy Bible or
something else that they consider much more important.
With love,
rjhinds
Originally posted by RJHindsI am afraid it doesn't.
... but I hope this makes sense to you.
They simply had no interest in that particular subject so it made no sense to them.
You claimed that:
The Holy Bible gives all the true answers to your questions about the beginnings.
But now you admit that for some reason it doesn't make sense to me - so surely that means it cannot have 'all the true answers to my questions'.
It has answered your questions, but apparently not sufficiently well for you to explain those answers to others.
Originally posted by twhitehead[/b]If there were stop starts in the universe that means dates reset does it not
I am afraid that I fail to follow your logic here. Most dating methods are based on things that are already known not to be eternal, why should they ever reflect eternal numbers?
[b]If the dating method shows some date that we can see in our life times, those more than likely are trustworthy,
Why?
but all the dates outside of our life time ...[text shortened]... liable? When did I ever claim that the universe resets dates? What does it mean to reset a date?
or do you think they remain the same after the universe stops and starts up
again? If that occurs that means all the old dates reset, if they reset that
means it can happen and what else can reset a date? Say for example the
last time the univese was doing its thing it last 6 billion years, it starts over
with another Big Bang and the clock starts over or all dates on the matter
in the universe is 6 billion years old and adding time to it as time goes by?
Kelly
Originally posted by twhitehead[/b]I prefer recorded history over a process in places, if I have a process that
I am afraid that I fail to follow your logic here. Most dating methods are based on things that are already known not to be eternal, why should they ever reflect eternal numbers?
[b]If the dating method shows some date that we can see in our life times, those more than likely are trustworthy,
Why?
but all the dates outside of our life time ...[text shortened]... liable? When did I ever claim that the universe resets dates? What does it mean to reset a date?
does not agree with recorded history I'd doubt the process over the records
or know I have an issue with both.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI never said anything about the universe stopping and starting up again. I am not even sure what that means. Are you saying time stops?
If there were stop starts in the universe that means dates reset does it not
or do you think they remain the same after the universe stops and starts up
again? [/b]
How would time stopping and starting 'reset' dates? What do you mean by 'reset dates'?
Say for example the last time the univese was doing its thing it last 6 billion years, it starts over
with another Big Bang and the clock starts over or all dates on the matter
in the universe is 6 billion years old and adding time to it as time goes by?
Kelly
Matter has dates on it? I didn't know that. Where does one find these dates?
Originally posted by twhiteheadYou don't think the universe stops and starts again, you believe it simply
I never said anything about the universe stopping and starting up again. I am not even sure what that means. Are you saying time stops?
How would time stopping and starting 'reset' dates? What do you mean by 'reset dates'?
[b]Say for example the last time the univese was doing its thing it last 6 billion years, it starts over
with another Big Bang ...[text shortened]... y?
Kelly
Matter has dates on it? I didn't know that. Where does one find these dates?[/b]
always was in the state it currently is in? Explain your beliefs on this matter
please, because your confusing.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI already stated that I do not know for sure if the universe predates the big bang. I think it is an open question at present.
You don't think the universe stops and starts again, you believe it simply
always was in the state it currently is in? Explain your beliefs on this matter
please, because your confusing.
Kelly
However, I do not understand what you are saying about 'reseting itself' or dates being 'reset' or matter having datestamps. I am not even sure what you mean by 'always in the stat is currently is in'. The universe is constantly changing.
Are you asking if I think the laws of physics have changed? If so, I think it is possible that they have, but unlikely that they have changed significantly since the big bang as it would be measurable.
Originally posted by twhiteheadPeople mearsure its and date them correct?
I already stated that I do not know for sure if the universe predates the big bang. I think it is an open question at present.
However, I do not understand what you are saying about 'reseting itself' or dates being 'reset' or matter having datestamps. I am not even sure what you mean by 'always in the stat is currently is in'. The universe is constantly ...[text shortened]... nlikely that they have changed significantly since the big bang as it would be measurable.
Lets take this one step at a time.
The date is how old they are?
Can we agree on that?
If so how old is the oldest thing dated your aware of?
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayYour post is so full of typos I cant quite make it all out.
People mearsure its and date them correct?
Lets take this one step at a time.
The date is how old they are?
Can we agree on that?
If so how old is the oldest thing dated your aware of?
Kelly
I believe the oldest thing dated is about 13 billion years. I am reading about it in the guardian and it is a galaxy. It is still not confirmed though. However I am sure there are galaxies not much younger than that that we can fairly positively date.