Atheist Creed

Originally posted by Red Night
Is Zen Buddhism a religion or a philosophy?

With the limited knowledge I have of Buddhism as a whole, I would have to intrepidly speculate that it is a bit of both.

Originally posted by HumeA
With the limited knowledge I have of Buddhism as a whole, I would have to intrepidly speculate that it is a bit of both.

Ah ha!

So a philosophy or ideology isn't that much different from a religion?

Originally posted by Red Night
Ah ha!

So a philosophy or ideology isn't that much different from a religion?

No. They are clearly different things.

Religion:

# a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality"
# an institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him"

Philosophy:

# doctrine: a belief (or system of beliefs) accepted as authoritative by some group or school
# the rational investigation of questions about existence and knowledge and ethics
# any personal belief about how to live or how to deal with a situation; "self-indulgence was his only philosophy"; "my father's philosophy of child-rearing was to let mother do it"



You have to understand that the manner in which you are portraying Atheism just doesn't make sense. Atheism is a lack of belief in the existence of a God or gods, rather than a specific belief. Thus, it is possible to be an atheist, and not know the term. It is a label applied by others, but not a necessity to define that person.

Originally posted by Red Night
Ah ha!

So a philosophy or ideology isn't that much different from a religion?

Well, communism or capitalism are philosophies, but I don't think you would chose to describe them as religions now, would you?

Originally posted by HumeA
No. They are clearly different things.

Religion:

# a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality"
# an institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him"

Philosophy:

# doctrine: a belief (or ...[text shortened]... he term. It is a label applied by others, but not a necessity to define that person.

You are at least partially correct.

What are your religious beliefs?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Well, communism or capitalism are philosophies, but I don't think you would chose to describe them as religions now, would you?

I think both communism and national socialism attempted to replace religion with their own philosophies. State worship replacing the worship of God.

So, I don't think it is that far-fetched to describe them as religions as they were practiced in certain countries.

Originally posted by Red Night
I think both communism and national socialism attempted to replace religion with their own philosophies. State worship replacing the worship of God.

So, I don't think it is that far-fetched to describe them as religions as they were practiced in certain countries.

Then your definition of religion is vastly different to that of every other human being on the planet.

Originally posted by Red Night
You are at least partially correct.

What are your religious beliefs?

I tend to tentatively label myself (when forced) as an agnostic. I am open to the concept of a deity, or force behind it all -- it would be quite comforting to be able to believe that, after all, but being a student of history, the religions on offer in the world seem all too mechanical.

For me, as I sort of mentioned in another thread, it all comes down to the problem of the prime mover, and pretty much two options:

A: Something can't come from nothing etc. something/someone must have created it all (or at least sparked creation)

B: My animal brain is too small to understand certain concepts that would explain it all.

I call myself agnostic, but I have little intention of deciding either way on a whim.

Originally posted by HumeA
I tend to tentatively label myself (when forced) as an agnostic. I am open to the concept of a deity, or force behind it all -- it would be quite comforting to be able to believe that, after all, but being a student of history, the religions on offer in the world seem all too mechanical.

For me, as I sort of mentioned in another thread, it all comes down t ...[text shortened]... t all.

I call myself agnostic, but I have little intention of deciding either way on a whim.

We sound pretty close.

I tend to see god (or the possibility of god) more in the collective consciousness and (and conscience) of humanity than in the science of creation. But, I think you may find him there as well.

What irks me is anyone saying "We know the truth," and therefore "your version of the truth is wrong."

And, I can't see a fundamental difference in whether the person telling me they know the truth is a christian, buddhist, muslim, atheist, scientologist, etc.

Intersting question: is scientology a religion? They have a church, (so do the atheists) and claim to not believe in a god-head (again like the atheists).

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Then your definition of religion is vastly different to that of every other human being on the planet.

Is scientology a religion?

Is zen buddhism?

Is christianity? (apparently not based on your definitions. Since there is no God for them to worship then it is just a warped ideology based on a false belief.)

Originally posted by Red Night
We sound pretty close.

I tend to see god (or the possibility of god) more in the collective consciousness and (and conscience) of humanity than in the science of creation. But, I think you may find him there as well.

What irks me is anyone saying "We know the truth," and therefore "your version of the truth is wrong."

And, I can't see a fundament ...[text shortened]... ch, (so do the atheists) and claim to not believe in a god-head (again like the atheists).

I believe it was Socrates that said: "Only a fool is certain."

While I'm sure (but not certain 😛) that it can't always be true, I think, as you say, it is never more fitting a warning than in the case of religion and ideology.

Originally posted by HumeA
I believe it was Socrates that said: "Only a fool is certain."

While I'm sure (but not certain 😛) that it can't always be true, I think, as you say, it is never more fitting a warning than in the case of religion and ideology.

That is a really good point. I don't know the answers. i can say that I see good things in the dogma's of Christianity, Atheism, Islam, Buddhism, Taosim, etc...and i also see bad things.

But, I cannot believe that any of these religions/ideologies has a monopoly on the truth.

Originally posted by HumeA
I believe it was Socrates that said: "Only a fool is certain."

While I'm sure (but not certain 😛) that it can't always be true, I think, as you say, it is never more fitting a warning than in the case of religion and ideology.

That was Montaigne, and if it was Socrates it would really be Plato. True, though.

Originally posted by bbarr
That was Montaigne, and if it was Socrates it would really be Plato. True, though.

Ah, thank you.

Originally posted by Red Night
Is scientology a religion?

Is zen buddhism?

Is christianity? (apparently not based on your definitions. Since there is no God for them to worship then it is just a warped ideology based on a false belief.)

Scientology is a cult.

Zen Buddism is a philosophy.

Christianity is a religion.