"Atheist Talking Points: What is Atheism?"

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No this is a fallacious argument, the Bible exits, Biblical teaching exists, Bible morality exists irrespective of whether a creator exists, so my bold putty cat friend are you willing to deny that these exist?

I don't think he denies their existence. Nor does he reject their authority. I think that he denies that they have any authority to reject. I am sure he will correct me if my understanding is wrong.

Personally, I think I disagree with (my understanding of) his position. I think the Bible does have a certain amount of authority over those who subscribe to it, and atheists do reject this authority. But I disagree that this makes 'rejection of authority' any more of a character trait of atheists than anyone else.
The majority of people in the world reject the authority of the Bible, whether they are atheist or not.
Likewise the majority of people (you included) reject the authority of the Koran.
The majority of people (you included) reject the authority of the Vedas.
The majority of people (you included) reject the authority of every religious text in which you do not believe.

We are no different to you in rejecting authority: we reject the authority of that in which we do not believe.

Penguin

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No this is a fallacious argument, the Bible exits, Biblical teaching exists, Bible morality exists irrespective of whether a creator exists, so my bold putty cat friend are you willing to deny that these exist?

Certainly the bible exists. Certainly biblical teaching exists. But I see no authority therein. Human morality exists independently of scripture, and it is richer and more positive when discussed and subjected to consensus rather than taken without examination from ancient texts. Biblical morality comes in a poor second.

Double-post. My mistake.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat

Certainly the bible exists. Certainly biblical teaching exists. But I see no authority therein. Human morality exists independently of scripture, and it is richer and more positive when discussed and subjected to consensus rather than taken without examination from ancient texts. Biblical morality comes in a poor second.

Human morality exists independently of the scripture. But the Scripture tells us why. The God who created man in His own image and likeness made this created distinct from animals in this sense of morality.

Granted, men may not know the Scriptures. But where is their alternative explanation why they have the moral sense ?

Having morality independent of knowing about or knowing the Bible does make man created in the image of God go away.

Unless you have another explanation for the moral sense. Something like rape goes on in the animal kingdom all the time. They have no guilt about it. One hawk may "steal" a fish out of the talons of a weaker hawk. There is no sin in doing so. The older cat will kill the younger male kitten to eliminate competition for females. He does so seemingly without a twinge of any guilty feeling.

So where did some threshold of evolution, once crossed, endow human beings with a higher moral consciousness of the good and the evil ?

Originally posted by sonship

[b]Certainly the bible exists. Certainly biblical teaching exists. But I see no authority therein. Human morality exists independently of scripture, and it is richer and more positive when discussed and subjected to consensus rather than taken without examination from ancient texts. Biblical morality comes in a poor second.

Human mor ...[text shortened]... n, once crossed, endow human beings with a higher moral consciousness of the good and the evil ?[/b]

Biblical scripture gives one explanation. There are others. I see no good reason to believe any that are based on any variety of scripture. Why yours and not another?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Thoughts?

Yes, you seem hell-bent to stir the pot with the Atheists.

Why must you continually jab and poke at them?

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
In order to reject an authority, one must first recognise it's existence. So, no. I don't reject this 'authority' you imagine.

Semantics. By refusing to acknowledge it, you are rejecting it.

We've been over and over this before.

Originally posted by Penguin
I don't think he denies their existence. Nor does he reject their authority. I think that he denies that they have any authority to reject. I am sure he will correct me if my understanding is wrong.

Personally, I think I disagree with (my understanding of) his position. I think the Bible does have a certain amount of authority over those who subscribe to ...[text shortened]... rejecting authority: we reject the authority of that in which we do not believe.

Penguin[/b]

Now this makes sense.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Semantics. By refusing to acknowledge it, you are rejecting it.

We've been over and over this before.

Semantics. You can't 'rebel' against that definition of 'authority'.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Semantics. You can't 'rebel' against that definition of 'authority'.

I didn't say 'rebel'. But you certainly can 'reject' that notion of 'authority', by refusing to acknowledge it.

Originally posted by Suzianne
But you certainly can 'reject' that notion of authority, by refusing to acknowledge it.

I don't think you can. Perhaps you'd care to define your terms?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes you absolutely reject the authority of scripture, do you not?

What's 'rejection' got to do with anything? 'Rebellion' was the word used in the OP.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
If you disagree or take exception, PK, please spell it out. Thanks.

What authority is an atheist 'rebelling' against?

Originally posted by Suzianne
Yes, you seem hell-bent to stir the pot with the Atheists.

Why must you continually jab and poke at them?

It's their belief; learning more about it sure isn't going to happen in a thread focused on biblical topics per se.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
What authority is an atheist 'rebelling' against?

"What they all have in common, of course, is the rejection of deity and rebellion against authority. [1]"

[1] Biet-Hallahmi, Benjamin; Atheists: A Psychological Profile; The Cambridge Companion to ATHEISM, Cambridge University Press, 2007

Perhaps one of us will become sufficiently curious to purchase the book (or search for an online site review or critique).