24 Jun 17
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeI hope that's the case. Christ had a parable about those who feel shortchanged .. and it ain't nice.
If it indeed turns out that it is simply the 'righteous' who are to receive salvation, and unbelievers (and followers of other religions) are included among those 'saved,' would this be something you would personally welcome, as a Christian?
Or would you feel short changed?
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeThe other implication is that THEY would need to BE righteous to receive salvation and they've been sold the idea that they would receive salvation regardless. They've been sold the idea that they would receive salvation even if they never cease to sin.
If it indeed turns out that it is simply the 'righteous' who are to receive salvation, and unbelievers (and followers of other religions) are included among those 'saved,' would this be something you would personally welcome, as a Christian?
Or would you feel short changed?
So of course they would "feel short changed". They will say, "The way of the Lord is not right."
Ezekiel 33
18“When the righteous turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, then he shall die in it. 19“But when the wicked turns from his wickedness and practices justice and righteousness, he will live by them. 20“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not right.’ O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways.”
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne"I will judge each of you according to his ways.”
The other implication is that THEY would need to BE righteous to receive salvation and they've been sold the idea that they would receive salvation regardless. They've been sold the idea that they would receive salvation even if they never cease to sin.
So of course they would "feel short changed". They will say, "The way of the Lord is not right."
...[text shortened]... y of the Lord is not right.’ O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways.”
That seems to be a reasonable approach for an omniscient and just deity to take.
24 Jun 17
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeIt was also echoed by Jesus.
"I will judge each of you according to his ways.”
That seems to be a reasonable approach for an omniscient and just deity to take.
Matthew 16
24Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. 25“For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26“For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 27“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
24 Jun 17
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeChristian theology is heavily anthropomorphized. The concept of heaven is no different. Christians, based on their fear based ideology approach heaven from what humans expect it to be like - not what 'heaven' is actually like.
If it indeed turns out that it is simply the 'righteous' who are to receive salvation, and unbelievers (and followers of other religions) are included among those 'saved,' would this be something you would personally welcome, as a Christian?
Or would you feel short changed?
24 Jun 17
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeYou believe only the righteous receive salvation? If they are righteous why do they need salvation? I thought Jesus came for sinners!?
If it indeed turns out that it is simply the 'righteous' who are to receive salvation, and unbelievers (and followers of other religions) are included among those 'saved,' would this be something you would personally welcome, as a Christian?
Or would you feel short changed?
24 Jun 17
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeThere will be none if what the Bible says is true. I want every single person I know come
Sure Kelly. The question is though, would you personally welcome unbelievers in heaven?
to Christ, for a couple of reasons, first and foremost He is the best thing that ever happen
to me, next AVOID HELL! I cannot talk anyone into this, but I can share what I know and
warn everyone. I'd avoid talk about being good enough, doing the right amount of works
and your clean before God, only Jesus cleans us, and after that we start doing the works
of God.
Luke 12:46
The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
2 Corinthians 6:14
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
1 Peter 4:18
And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
2 Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Jude 1:18
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
24 Jun 17
Originally posted by KellyJayMark 2
You believe only the righteous receive salvation? If they are righteous why do they need salvation? I thought Jesus came for sinners!?
16When the scribes of the Pharisees saw that He was eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they said to His disciples, “Why is He eating and drinking with tax collectors and sinners?” 17And hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
The implication of course is that the righteous do not need Jesus to call them because they are already "healthy" and do not need a "physician". They are already righteous.
For those who are "sick", the words that Jesus spoke while He walked the Earth are "the way and the truth and the life". Those who are already righteous already abide in "the way and the truth and the life".
Originally posted by KellyJayLuke 12
There will be none if what the Bible says is true. I want every single person I know come
to Christ, for a couple of reasons, first and foremost He is the best thing that ever happen
to me, next AVOID HELL! I cannot talk anyone into this, but I can share what I know and
warn everyone. I'd avoid talk about being good enough, doing the right amount of work ...[text shortened]... is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
43“Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 44“Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45“But if that slave says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long time in coming,’ and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; 46the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. 47“And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.
You shouldn't take the words of Jesus out of context in order to make them sound like they say something they don't..
Within context what is clear is that "unbelievers" equate to those who do not "act in accord with his [master's] will". Those who actually act in accordance with the will of God equate to "believers". Not those who merely claim to "believe".
Not convinced? The following says the same.
Matthew 21
28“But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go work today in the vineyard.’ 29“And he answered, ‘I will not’; but afterward he regretted it and went. 30“The man came to the second and said the same thing; and he answered, ‘I will, sir’; but he did not go. 31“Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you. 32“For John came to you in the way of righteousness and you did not believe him; but the tax collectors and prostitutes did believe him; and you, seeing this, did not even feel remorse afterward so as to believe him.
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeI desperately want there to be a heaven.
If it indeed turns out that it is simply the 'righteous' who are to receive salvation, and unbelievers (and followers of other religions) are included among those 'saved,' would this be something you would personally welcome, as a Christian?
Or would you feel short changed?
I reckon the atheists will outnumber the Christians.
25 Jun 17
Originally posted by sonshipIt's strange to me that you have time to post in every thread, apart from the one where you asked me to provide an example of your diminutive name calling.
It is strange to me that as of yet no Atheist in this thread has yet grasped that for him to be "in heaven" would be agonizing to the extreme, sheer misery and torment.
That's everything he is seeking to get [b]away from![/b]
Did you not read the example i provided, or are you just pretending you didn't?!
25 Jun 17
Originally posted by KellyJayAgain Kelly, that's not really answering the question. I understand that you believe only those who come to Jesus will be saved. However, heaven forbid you're wrong, and when you get to heaven you discover non-believers, would you be pleased to see them or feel short changed?
There will be none if what the Bible says is true. I want every single person I know come
to Christ, for a couple of reasons, first and foremost He is the best thing that ever happen
to me, next AVOID HELL! I cannot talk anyone into this, but I can share what I know and
warn everyone. I'd avoid talk about being good enough, doing the right amount of work ...[text shortened]... is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.