Originally posted by TerrierJackIf you don't want to have a civil conversation within this thread you can leave if you'd like, otherwise tone it down.
Is something blocking your ears? Baptism is not unique to any one religion. It is an extremely common cultural idea. You need to join the covenant of washed people and clean out your ears 'cause only those with ears can hear.
Originally posted by pawnhandlerDepending on your beliefs, it unites the adult, child, or infant to the religious family (i.e. to the church in question such as Lutherans or Catholics) and/or removes the stain of original sin. In those who have reached the age in which they are old enough to sin and have done so, those sins are washed away as well.
Depending on your beliefs, it unites the adult, child, or infant to the religious family (i.e. to the church in question such as Lutherans or Catholics) and/or removes the stain of original sin. In those who have reached the age in which they are old enough to sin and have done so, those sins are washed away as well.
I'll try to find references.
...[text shortened]... l his works?" Do you believe in God the Father... God the Son ... God the Holy Spirit ...
This is close. Baptism is primarily for the remission of all sins. It also prepares the soul for the reception of the other sacraments (in the Catholic Church, no sacrament is valid without a prior baptism.) However, the sacrament of baptism does not incorporate people into any particular church. A Lutheran who chooses to become a Catholic does not need to be re-baptised.
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Originally posted by Conrau KWhat you are saying is not universally true in every Christology.
[b]Depending on your beliefs, it unites the adult, child, or infant to the religious family (i.e. to the church in question such as Lutherans or Catholics) and/or removes the stain of original sin. In those who have reached the age in which they are old enough to sin and have done so, those sins are washed away as well.
This is close. Baptism is p ...[text shortened]... particular church. A Lutheran who chooses to become a Catholic does not need to be re-baptised.[/b]
And not every Chrsitian denomination will recognize a different denomination's baptism as being "valid".
Originally posted by BadwaterTechnically, baptism is not christologocal. But granted, denominations will have different understandings of baptism. Nonetheless, the formula for baptism is near universal ('I baptise you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit'😉 and only different among non-Trinitarian Christians. Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Anglicans and Lutherans all recognise the validity of each others' baptisms. Some Protestants groups, while sharing the same formula, reject the validity of infant baptism as well but these are a minority and, even so, their baptisms are still generally recognised as valid by mainstream Christians.
What you are saying is not universally true in every Christology.
And not every Chrsitian denomination will recognize a different denomination's baptism as being "valid".
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Originally posted by Conrau KI did read it, and have many times, and I'm not seeing an interpretation differently in this passage. Baptism is to become a disciple; that's what Jesus is saying. Jesus says nothing of the remission of sins.
Read again. Jesus has all holy authority and instructs his disciples to baptise in his name.
Originally posted by BadwaterYou said 'baptism is primarily to confer holy authority and become a disciple of Jesus'. While Jesus does instruct his apostles to make disciples of all nations, he does not say that baptism 'confers holy authority'. I really have no idea where you read that. As for the fact that Jesus says nothing about the remission of sin, this is not surprising. Jesus does not provide a theological tract. However, in Acts and in the epistles, the idea that baptism remits sin is explicit:
I did read it, and have many times, and I'm not seeing an interpretation differently in this passage. Baptism is to become a disciple; that's what Jesus is saying. Jesus says nothing of the remission of sins.
Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, 7 every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit. (Acts 3: 38)
And also,
Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
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We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life.
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For if we have grown into union with him through a death like his, we shall also be united with him in the resurrection.
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We know that our old self was crucified with him, so that our sinful body might be done away with, that we might no longer be in slavery to sin.
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For a dead person has been absolved from sin. (Romans 6: 3-7)
And also,
In it he also went to preach to the spirits in prison, 6
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who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water.
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This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God 7 for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
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who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him. (1 Peter 2:20-22)
The argument which both St. Paul and St. Peter use is that through baptism, the individual shares in the death and resurrection of Jesus and thus is delivered from sin.
Originally posted by galveston75To him all the prophets bear witness, that everyone who believes in him will receive forgiveness of sins through his name."
There is confusion among the religions on baptism, but the Bible is very clear what it is and what it represents. But the Bible never says just the action in itself forgives you of your sins. Acts 10:43 & 22:16
Acts 10: 43
Now, why delay? Get up and have yourself baptized and your sins washed away, calling upon his name.'
Acts 22: 16
I don't get. The first one is uncontroversial (the belief in Jesus counts as a baptism of desire); the second one seemingly confirms that baptism washes away sin.
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Originally posted by Conrau KI talk about Matthew 28: 16-19, the only place where Jesus talks specifically about baptizing others, and then you say "Oh look, a kitty!" and are off somewhere else.
You said 'baptism is primarily to confer holy authority and become a disciple of Jesus'. While Jesus does instruct his apostles to make disciples of all nations, he does not say that baptism 'confers holy authority'. I really have no idea where you read that. As for the fact that Jesus says nothing about the remission of sin, this is not surprising. Jesus d ...[text shortened]... ract. However, in Acts and in the epistles, the idea that baptism remits sin is explicit....
This is why I'm not an active minister for now, and maybe forever. People just can't seem to stay on task and be bothered with what Jesus says. So go right ahead - you know better than Jesus, so you go with your bad self and tell us all about baptism.