07 Nov 09
Originally posted by galveston75It means 'to be identified with'.
What is the purpose of Baptism?
There are different baptism for different reasons.
The one baptism that is most important is the baptism by the Holy Spirit of the believer into Christ. The moment one trusts Christs as saviour he/she is baptised into Christ and is so closely identified with Christ that as far as God is concerned they are just as fit for heaven as is Jesus Himself.
07 Nov 09
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Originally posted by galveston75For the JW, baptism is confirmation that you are completely indoctrinated into the false doctrines of Charles Russell. For other Christians baptism means you have accepted Christ and believe in the gospel.
What is the purpose of Baptism?
Here is an interesting article :
Baptism for a Jehovah's Witness differs quite noteably to that of other churches and Christian groups. This brief article will identify five areas where there are significant differences. In addition to differing with Christianity in this practice, despite claiming to follow the Bible in all areas, the Jehovah's Witness practice of baptism actually has many aspects to it that cannot be found in the Bible. These five areas are outlined below:
1 - Before baptism, one must answer over 80 questions to the satisfaction of local Kingdom Hall elders (see the Watchtower book: Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry for the 80 questions at the back of the book). This book can be viewed online at: http://www.jwsreunited.com/organized.pdf).
2 - Baptism never tends to be something that is ever rushed into. Generally, a significant period of time passes whereby, in the meantime, the likely candidate will get through a fair amount of Watchtower literature.
In contrast to this, when one reads through the account of the early Church in the book of Acts, we find that not only did believers not have to go through "book studies" and undergo a series of questions before elders, but they were often baptised at the very instance that they believed in Jesus (e.g. Acts 2:41; 8:12, 36-38; 9:18; 10:47; 16:14-15, 33; 18:18). Some Jehovah's Witnesses may object that there are also Christian churches that discourage people from being baptised straight away as well. While this is probably so, it must be stressed that the difference here is that if a Christian wants to be baptised straight away, he or she can do so. Jehovah's Witnesses are not given that option.
3 - Being baptised into an "Organisation" rather than the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (as Jesus commanded in Matthew 28:19). Jehovah's Witnesses entering into baptism are asked the following questions:
"1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?
2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization? (The Watchtower, April 1st 2006, pages 21-25)
It is incredible (and shocking) that such a formula can be proclaimed when one considers Jesus' words to baptise in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit at Matthew 28:19 and to blatantly go against this. One can only assume that part of this refusal to follow Jesus' words is: 1. Because the formula of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit simply sounds too Trinitarian for the Watchtower to follow 2. The Watchtower formula basically has the Jehovah's Witness dedicating him or herself to an Organisation rather than simply to God alone. This inclusion of the organisation is in line with the wider emphasis and allegiance that Jehovah's Witnesses give to the Watchtower organisation in many other areas of their lives too.
Other aspects of the Jehovah’s Witness baptismal practice also tend to differ from the baptismal practices of other Bible related groups.
4 - Jehovah’s Witness baptisms are usually always done at the large conventions of the movement. But when one looks at the biblical model, and the practice of modern day Christians, the actual location of baptism is rarely an issue (e.g. Acts 8:36-39). For example, some Christians will choose to be baptized at a location which may have special personal significance to them, such as a beach, etc.
5 - Jehovah’s Witness baptism appears to be predominantly done by various leaders in the movement at these events (elders, etc). Although Christian baptism is also done largely by leaders in churches (pastors, elders, etc), there is no biblical command stating that this must be the case. Therefore, many Christians are often baptised by Christian friends and laymen.
http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/jwbaptism.htm
07 Nov 09
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Originally posted by galveston75Depending on your beliefs, it unites the adult, child, or infant to the religious family (i.e. to the church in question such as Lutherans or Catholics) and/or removes the stain of original sin. In those who have reached the age in which they are old enough to sin and have done so, those sins are washed away as well.
What is the purpose of Baptism?
I'll try to find references.
edit: Adult and child baptism in the Catholic Church also includes "questions" -- along the lines of "Do you reject Satan and all his works?" Do you believe in God the Father... God the Son ... God the Holy Spirit ...
07 Nov 09
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Originally posted by galveston75More Baptism info:
What is the purpose of Baptism?
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/baptism.php
Bible Says : Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit ...."
Watchtower 1985 June 1 p.30 Says : "The first question is: On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?
The second is: Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?
Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian (JW) baptism."
08 Nov 09
Originally posted by karoly aczelWho made the water holy? What makes it special? Did Jesus get baptized in holy water? No.... Does the Bible speak of such a thing? No....
So you saying there is nothing special about the water?
Or rather, is all water the same? Like is "holy water" any different than normal water?
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08 Nov 09
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Originally posted by galveston75Everything is sacred and everything is not. Baptism is just an example of one of the good things that religion has done for humanity. It is just an instance of the healthy requirement for an occasional bath (no kidding?) that by all accounts some earlier cultures ignored. With the encouragement of the "holy man" many "horribles" became acceptably human (and still do.) So at least in terms of the general practice let's all celebrate that one in a non-secular way. "You may now return to your regularly scheduled tunnel vision."
Who made the water holy? What makes it special? Did Jesus get baptized in holy water? No.... Does the Bible speak of such a thing? No....
08 Nov 09
Originally posted by TerrierJackSorry but none of that makes any sence....You could just answer the question. I think it's pretty simple.
Everything is sacred and everything is not. Baptism is just an example of one of the good things that religion has done for humanity. It is just an instance of the healthy requirement for an occasional bath (no kidding?) that by all accounts some earlier cultures ignored. With the encouragement of the "holy man" many "horribles" became acceptably human ( ...[text shortened]... one in a non-secular way. "You may now return to your regularly scheduled tunnel vision."
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08 Nov 09
Originally posted by galveston75Covenant with God.
What is the purpose of Baptism?
From earlier postings:
...John has a different practice and idea, and it's the new way. Huge crowds seek him and he is especially popular with women - hugely popular, beyond rock star popular, because he has a simple message: You do not require a penis for covenant with God.
...There is another way, and that way is immersion in water. No one is allergic to water; everyone needs water. Water is the ultimate universal symbol of covenant...
08 Nov 09
Originally posted by galveston75I saw this thing where Zen monks "meditated(?)" on some water and apparently changed the shape of the molecules(?). Has anyone come across this apparently repeatable,(and thus sciantifically viable), story?
Who made the water holy? What makes it special? Did Jesus get baptized in holy water? No.... Does the Bible speak of such a thing? No....
(I know this is not directly related to baptism but it could have some implications..)
08 Nov 09
Originally posted by Badwater...and the penultimate "way of thinking" before "god-like thought". (Just using the term "god-like" loosely here..)
Covenant with God.
From earlier postings:
...John has a different practice and idea, and it's the new way. Huge crowds seek him and he is especially popular with women - hugely popular, beyond rock star popular, because he has a simple message: You do not require a penis for covenant with God.
...There is another way, and that way is immersion i ...[text shortened]... ergic to water; everyone needs water. Water is the ultimate universal symbol of covenant...
This is taken from bhuddism where it is postulated that there are four types,(or modes?), of thought relating to God.
These are :
Thinking like, 1. Rock
2.Sand
3. Water
4. "God like"
I've found this analogy to be very helpful in pinpointing where people are at with their "spiritual thought". (ie. Thoughts set in rock are hard to change and need to be broken,etc. Thoughts set in sand can be more easily changed, however they still leave an imprint. Thoughts set in water are easily changed, their imprints naturally ripple and return to to their origonal nature, water flows to the lowest point, etc.)
Sorry about the innacurate language-I hope I've gotten my meaning across🙂
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08 Nov 09
Originally posted by galveston75Is something blocking your ears? Baptism is not unique to any one religion. It is an extremely common cultural idea. You need to join the covenant of washed people and clean out your ears 'cause only those with ears can hear.
Sorry but none of that makes any sence....You could just answer the question. I think it's pretty simple.