1. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    16 Nov '16 04:09
    I don't think truth by nature is always necessarily believable.That said, I think people build mental barriers to reject certain beliefs based on past experiences. For example, if you had a bad experience with someone from a specific religious group, you may reject that religion based on the experience you had with said person and not necessarily because that religion does not make sense to you.
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    16 Nov '16 04:23
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    I don't think truth by nature is always necessarily believable.
    Of course truth isn't always believable, but this has nothing to do with the nature of the truth and more to do with nature of the recipient and the way the particular truth is packaged and presented.

    For example telling someone "God loves them so much that he became human and came to earth and paid a terrible price for their sin so that they can be with him for eternity" is, one the face of it fairly unbelievable to the human mind. But is nevertheless an appealing account of love, family, self-sacrifice, atonement, redemption and salvation.

    However to suffix that with "oh and by the way, if you find yourself unable to believe this then unfortunately this same God who loves you so much is going to put you in a place he has especially created where he will supernaturally keep you alive while he watches and burns you in firey torment for eternity". Is completely nonsensical, absurd, apocalyptically hateful and a platform for the potential believer to reject the initial premise.
  3. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    16 Nov '16 05:08
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Of course truth isn't always believable, but this has nothing to do with the nature of the truth and more to do with nature of the recipient and the way the particular truth is packaged and presented.

    For example telling someone "God loves them so much that he became human and came to earth and paid a terrible price for their sin so that they can be ...[text shortened]... apocalyptically hateful and a platform for the potential believer to reject the initial premise.
    So you think it's more believable that God paid a terrible price to save people from a painless cessation of existence rather than a dreadful eternal separation from God?

    (Thereby I am not saying that God will keep the lost alive and gleefully watch them burn for eternity.)
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    16 Nov '16 05:13
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    So you think it's more believable that God paid a terrible price to save people from a painless cessation of existence rather than a dreadful eternal separation from God?

    (Thereby I am not saying that God will keep the lost alive and gleefully watch them burn for eternity.)
    Your post is incoherent.
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Nov '16 05:15
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    I don't think truth by nature is always necessarily believable.That said, I think people build mental barriers to reject certain beliefs based on past experiences. For example, if you had a bad experience with someone from a specific religious group, you may reject that religion based on the experience you had with said person and not necessarily because that religion does not make sense to you.
    Why are you not a Muslim? What is the barrier to your belief?
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    16 Nov '16 05:45
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    I don't think truth by nature is always necessarily believable.That said, I think people build mental barriers to reject certain beliefs based on past experiences. For example, if you had a bad experience with someone from a specific religious group, you may reject that religion based on the experience you had with said person and not necessarily because that religion does not make sense to you.
    I have not had bad experiences with people from the vast majority of religions. In fact, I haven't had any experiences with people from most religions.
  7. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    16 Nov '16 07:471 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Why are you not a Muslim? What is the barrier to your belief?
    I believe the Bible is divinely inspired, can't see how any other religious book is even comparable.

    Why do you believe what you do, to be the truth?
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    16 Nov '16 07:51
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    What do you believe to be the truth?
    Oh dear...
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Nov '16 08:01
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    I believe the Bible is divinely inspired, can't see how any other religious book is even comparable.
    I don't have any reason to believe the Bible is divinely inspired and I see other religious books as being comparable in this regard.

    Why do you believe what you do, to be the truth?

    I'm not interested in whether you would attach the word "truth" to my beliefs or not. Bear that in mind. The reasons I don't feel I have any convincing reason to believe books like the Bible and the Koran are divinely inspired include their source and origin, their credibility as evidence, and their purpose analyzed, in part, through how they were compiled and the use to which they have been put.
  10. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Nov '16 08:02
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Oh dear...
    Yep. One of his ripcord questions in only his third post on his own thread.
  11. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    16 Nov '16 08:093 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    I don't have any reason to believe the Bible is divinely inspired and I see other religious books as being comparable in this regard.

    [b]Why do you believe what you do, to be the truth?


    I'm not interested in whether you would attach the word "truth" to my beliefs or not. Bear that in mind. The reasons I don't feel I have any convincing reason to belie ...[text shortened]... pose analyzed, in part, through how they were compiled and the use to which they have been put..[/b]
    I'm not interested in whether you would attach the word "truth" to my beliefs or not.

    Do you regard your own beliefs to be true or not? What would have to be different about the Bible's source and origin, credibility as evidence, purpose etc. before you would regard it as believable? In other words, what criteria do you have that the Bible falls short of?
  12. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Nov '16 08:34
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    Do you regard your own beliefs to be true or not?
    Well I would hardly have beliefs that I also believed to be untrue or unbelievable. So don't be daft, please.

    What would have to be different about the Bible's source and origin, credibility as evidence, purpose etc. before you would regard it as believable? In other words, what criteria do you have that the Bible falls short of?

    Credibility. I believe it to be mythology. The strident claims by the likes of you that it is "divinely inspired" are unconvincing to me and evidence of nothing except your own beliefs. For any further detail on this, I refer you to the literally hundreds of discussions I've been involved in on this matter over the last decade. As I have said before, I am not going out of my way to sit at my computer and retype stuff for your benefit.
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Nov '16 08:37
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    In other words, what criteria do you have that the Bible falls short of?
    Like I said, the reasons I don't feel I have any convincing reason to believe books like the Bible and the Koran are divinely inspired include their source and origin, their credibility as evidence, and their purpose analyzed, in part, through how they were compiled and the use to which they have been put. I don't think they chart revelations by God. I think they are explained by culture, anthropology and psychology. I have no reason to believe there is any supernatural element or influence.
  14. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    16 Nov '16 08:421 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Like I said, the reasons I don't feel I have any convincing reason to believe books like the Bible and the Koran are divinely inspired include their source and origin, their credibility as evidence, and their purpose analyzed, in part, through how they were compiled and the use to which they have been put. I don't think they chart revelations by God. I think the ...[text shortened]... logy and psychology. I have no reason to believe there is any supernatural element or influence.
    So can you tell me what they would have to be like in your book to pass as revelations by God? You say you have no reason to believe there is any supernatural element or influence, so can you tell me what kind of supernatural element or influence (which you see missing in the Bible) would have to be there for it to be acceptable to you?
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    16 Nov '16 08:47
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    So can you tell me what they would have to be like in your book to pass as revelations by God? You say you have no reason to believe there is any supernatural element or influence, so can you tell me what kind of supernatural element or influence would be acceptable to you?
    They would have to be more convincing and more credible. I would "know" it if it happened. The stuff you propagate, for example, is neither convincing nor credible. If I thought it was, I would tell you. I suppose I will perhaps just be convinced by something someday (although I don't expect or anticipate it) and the credibility of it will be a realization (resulting in a change of beliefs) and not a decision or choice, as such. I've told you all this before, several times. Relatively recently. You keep asking the same thing over and over and over again.
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