Barriers to belief

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
The question was - Are both our contradictory beliefs true, or is one of our beliefs true and the other one false?

And not only have I told you my answer, I have also explained my thinking behind it. You see, like I have already said, your desire to attach labels like "true" or "real" or "right" and "not false" or "right" or "correct" or "absolute truth" to your various beliefs/superstitions about supernatural beings and events is of no relevance to me and my beliefs.

Likewise, the fact that my beliefs are different from yours and you are obsessed with using the words "contradict" and "contradictory", has absolutely no impact whatsoever on the fact that I simply do not hold to be true the same things as you hold to be true.

You asking the same question about this time and time again, post after post, day after day, topic after topic, doesn't render the things you happen to believe any more believable to people [like me] who don't believe them.

Originally posted by FMF
And not only have I told you my answer, I have also explained my thinking behind it. You see, like I have already said, your desire to attach labels like "true" or "real" or "right" and "not false" or "right" or "correct" or "absolute truth" to your various beliefs/superstitions about supernatural beings and events is of no relevance to me and my beliefs.

Lik ...[text shortened]... the things you happen to believe any more believable to people [like me] who don't believe them.

All I require from you is a yes or no answer.

Is it possible in your view for both of our contradictory beliefs (about the Bible) to be true at the same time? Yes or No?

Can't you swallow your pride and answer the question?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
All I require from you is a yes or no answer.

You have got much more than that. You have got a crystal clear answer AND I have indulged you with a properly thought-out and nuanced rationale for that answer which has the added benefit of giving you an insight into how I am dealing with your peculiar intellectual and interpersonal behaviour. Not only is my answer there, staring you in your face, but I have explained it, and repeated the answer and the explanation several times.

Originally posted by FMF
You have got much more than that. You have got a crystal clear answer AND I have indulged you with a properly thought-out and nuanced rationale for that answer which has the added benefit of giving you an insight into how I am dealing with your peculiar intellectual and interpersonal behaviour. Not only is my answer there, staring you in your face, but I have explained it, and repeated the answer and the explanation several times.

All I have from you is an eloquently verbose dodge to a perfectly simple question.

A yes or a no answer. Which is it? Yes or No?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Person A finds belief X to be credible. Person A believes belief X is true.

Person B finds belief Y to be credible. Person B believes that belief Y is true.

Belief X and Y are contradictory.

Are both beliefs X and Y true?

I asked you two direct questions requiring direct and specific answers to your previous post and you reply with this load of waffle.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
All I have from you is an eloquently verbose dodge to a perfectly simple question.

A yes or a no answer. Which is it? Yes or No?

The fact that you are preoccupied with how my beliefs "contradict" yours is meaningless to me. The fact that you have unilaterally declared your beliefs to be "universal truths" or "absolute truths" is meaningless to me. The fact that you seek to attach these particular labels to your superstitious beliefs and notions - and think there is some discursive significance in doing this - is meaningless to me.

Furthermore, it does not alter or effect either your beliefs or my beliefs in any way whatsoever.

You are so obsessed with these labels, that you are apparently unable to discern that your question has already been answered, repeatedly.

Originally posted by divegeester
Name something you believe that is not credible?

Name something that you think is true but not credible?

I believe the Bible is God's revelation to mankind. FMF does not find this credible. So the question is can both me and FMF be right or is one of us wrong?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Can't you swallow your pride and answer the question?

Come on then. Give me an item of your religious dogma - one at a time - and I will tell you whether I believe it or not. I'll do it a few times and then we can stop. I think you'll have got the picture by then.

[Indeed, I have a strong suspicion that you've already got the picture but are pretending not to have done so.]

Originally posted by FMF
The fact that you are preoccupied with how my beliefs "contradict" yours is meaningless to me. The fact that you have unilaterally declared your beliefs to be "universal truths" or "absolute truths" is meaningless to me. The fact that you seek to attach these particular labels to your superstitious beliefs and notions - and think there is some discursive signifi ...[text shortened]... t you are apparently unable to discern that your question has already been answered, repeatedly.

I am asking for your view of truth. I have given you mine. That fact that you think my view of truth is meaningless has nothing to do with the question I asked you. I am not asking you about my view of truth. I am asking you about your view of truth.

Do you believe two contradictory statements can both be true? Yes or No?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
I am asking for your view of truth. I have given you mine. That fact that you think my view of truth is meaningless has nothing to do with the question I asked you. I am not asking you about my view of truth. I am asking you about your view of truth.

Do you believe two contradictory statements can both be true? Yes or No?

I have given my answer as to what I hold to be "true" compared to what you you hold to be "true" repeatedly over the last few pages, and also how I have no interest in whether or not you attach the label "true" to what you believe and do not attach it to what I believe. Go on, give me an item of your religious dogma - one at a time - and I will tell you whether I believe it or not. Then you can obsess - one piece of dogma at a time - over whether my lack of belief in what you believe "contradicts" you and what it means with regard to how "true" you think your beliefs are. Go on. Give me some items. I will deal with each one, one by one.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So the question is can both me and FMF be right or is one of us wrong?

And how does this question affect [1] your set of beliefs, and [2] my set of beliefs?

Originally posted by FMF
I have given my answer as to what I hold to be "true" compared to what you you hold to be "true" repeatedly over the last few pages, and also how I have no interest in whether or not you attach the label "true" to what you believe and do not attach it to what I believe. Go on, give me an item of your religious dogma - one at a time - and I will tell you whether ...[text shortened]... e" you think your beliefs are. Go on. Give me some items. I will deal with each one, one by one.

Ok I will do so as soon as you have answered my question that you have been dodging for the last 3 pages of this thread.

Do you believe two contradictory statements about the same thing can both be true at the same time? Yes or No?

Why is it so hard for you to say either 'Yes' or 'No'?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Do you believe two contradictory statements about the same thing can both be true at the same time?

What a silly question. What does it have to do with your beliefs and my beliefs? I can't think of any scenario where two such statements can both be be "true", so unless there is some silly lateral thinking puzzle or thought exercise that you're preoccupied with, I can't see the point of the question. It doesn't have any impact or influence on the credibility of what you believe in my mind, and it doesn't have any impact or influence on the credibility of what I believe in your mind. So it's irrelevant. You just keep asking it over and over again as if it is pertinent to the topic of "barriers to belief" and as if it is you engaging in proper conversation in good faith, which you appear not to be..

Originally posted by FMF
What a silly question. What does it have to do with your beliefs and my beliefs? I can't think of any scenario where two such statements can both be be "true", so unless there is some silly lateral thinking puzzle or thought exercise that you're preoccupied with, I can't see the point of the question. It doesn't have any impact or influence on the credibility of ...[text shortened]... and as if it is you engaging in proper conversation in good faith, which you appear not to be..

I can't think of any scenario where two such statements can both be be "true",

So is your answer No? Why did it take you 3 pages of waffling to say so?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
[b]I can't think of any scenario where two such statements can both be be "true",

So is your answer No? Why did it take you 3 pages of waffling to say so?[/b]

If you think it was waffle (or are pretending to), then no wonder you didn't realize that your question - and more importantly, the ostensible purpose behind it - were being answered all along.