Believe in angels?

Originally posted by Rajk999
You have a funny way of writing so its difficult to understand what you write sometimes.

Are you saying that there are female angels in the Bible?
I cant remember seeing any. I thought all references to angels were masculine.

Zechariah 5:9-10 (New International Version)

9 Then I looked up—and there before me were two women, with the wind in their wings! They had wings like those of a stork, and they lifted up the basket between heaven and earth.

10 "Where are they taking the basket?" I asked the angel who was speaking to me.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Zechariah 5:9-10 (New International Version)

9 Then I looked up—and there before me were two women, with the wind in their wings! They had wings like those of a stork, and they lifted up the basket between heaven and earth.

10 "Where are they taking the basket?" I asked the angel who was speaking to me.

I think thats a vision or dream Zechariarh is having. Read the first few chapters. In visions the prophets had they see animals with wings, flying scrolls etc etc. So a woman with wings in a vision is not an angel.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Is this somewhere in the Bible?

Possibly. But the distinction is explicitly set out in the Summa Theologica of St.Thomas of Aqiunas. I do not know what scriptural basis he uses to distinguish angel from man.

Originally posted by Conrau K
Possibly. But the distinction is explicitly set out in the Summa Theologica of St.Thomas of Aqiunas. I do not know what scriptural basis he uses to distinguish angel from man.

Well I am not a Catholic so I dont have a clue about St Thomas ...
But here :

Genesis 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.


Seems like the giants in the time arround Noah were caused by angels breeding with women. I know that many dont want to believe this and try to find alternative explanations. In some of the other books left out of the Bible this particular event was explained in more detail.

Originally posted by snowinscotland
Are you saying that Mary only appears to those who believe in her, as an angel, if they are Roman Catholics?

im saying to date no record of a sighting of mary has been to any other faith, a angel i was asking if that was the writers who posted for a female angel would this qualify.

Originally posted by stoker
im saying to date no record of a sighting of mary has been to any other faith, a angel i was asking if that was the writers who posted for a female angel would this qualify.

You think maybe Mary has some religious affiliation?
Why is she appearing only to Catholics?

Originally posted by stoker
im saying to date no record of a sighting of mary has been to any other faith, a angel i was asking if that was the writers who posted for a female angel would this qualify.

Perhaps another way of saying this is

Mary only appears to those who believe in her. These people who believe in her are Roman Catholics. No-one else sees her (or do not recognise her) because they find alternative explanations, pertinent to their beliefs.

Is that better?

Originally posted by stoker
im saying to date no record of a sighting of mary has been to any other faith, a angel i was asking if that was the writers who posted for a female angel would this qualify.

You are wrong. Some Orthodox Christians have claimed visions of Mary. Both Catholic and Orthodox churches have a strong tradition of veneration for Mary -- some even believe she visited Greece and founded the first order of monks on Mt. Athos. The Catholic Church differs in that it officially investigates reported visions and seeks to establish their veracity. I am not aware of any such processes in Orthodox churches.

Neither the Catholics nor the Orthodox regard Mary as an angel.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Well I am not a Catholic so I dont have a clue about St Thomas ...
But here :

Genesis 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit sh ...[text shortened]... ome of the other books left out of the Bible this particular event was explained in more detail.

I don't see why "sons of God" equates with "angels" in this passage. It is probably anachronistic to talk of angels so early in the Genesis narrative. Angels do not appear until a few chapters later and these stories probably originate from a different scriptural tradition. And not until Job do we find a similar expression used to refer to angels.

Originally posted by Conrau K
I don't see why "sons of God" equates with "angels" in this passage. It is probably anachronistic to talk of angels so early in the Genesis narrative. Angels do not appear until a few chapters later and these stories probably originate from a different scriptural tradition. And not until Job do we find a similar expression used to refer to angels.

For sure its a puzzling passage. The thing is, it cant be regular men that were breeding these women and producing giants. Although there is no need to solve every puzzle in the Bible, it is useful in my opinion to read some of the texts available in the time of Christ which were excluded from our Bible. The Book of Enoch is one such book and its probably from this book that Peter and Jude got these passages, which explains the giants issue in Genesis.

2PE 2:4 For if God spared not the ANGELS THAT SINNED, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Originally posted by Conrau K
You are wrong. Some Orthodox Christians have claimed visions of Mary. Both Catholic and Orthodox churches have a strong tradition of veneration for Mary -- some even believe she visited Greece and founded the first order of monks on Mt. Athos. The Catholic Church differs in that it officially investigates reported visions and seeks to establish their veraci ...[text shortened]... ocesses in Orthodox churches.

Neither the Catholics nor the Orthodox regard Mary as an angel.

i had heard of this but have no info to date of her visit to greece, tho also think i have been told in past of this is were she died/went to heaven, but again just something i was told not read anything on it.

Originally posted by snowinscotland
Perhaps another way of saying this is

Mary only appears to those who believe in her. These people who believe in her are Roman Catholics. No-one else sees her (or do not recognise her) because they find alternative explanations, pertinent to their beliefs.

Is that better?

no im not going on your vertion, im with anglican faith and within our faith there are groups who acknowledge her importance, as i do. tho not in the trinaty her place is given as a servant of god, maybe equal to angels.

Originally posted by stoker
no im not going on your vertion, im with anglican faith and within our faith there are groups who acknowledge her importance, as i do. tho not in the trinaty her place is given as a servant of god, maybe equal to angels.

Mary , mother of God
Mary, mother of Jesus.
Mary, servant of God.

Which is it?
Does it not bother you that Paul does not mention anything about praying to Mary?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Mary , mother of God
Mary, mother of Jesus.
Mary, servant of God.

Which is it?
Does it not bother you that Paul does not mention anything about praying to Mary?

no, he would of know her, but his work was to spread the word of jesus the salvation to the gentiles. he would of known the other workers in christ and did not mention them.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Mary , mother of God
Mary, mother of Jesus.
Mary, servant of God.

Which is it?
Does it not bother you that Paul does not mention anything about praying to Mary?

Wait a little, praying to Mary?
Have we skipped the Holy Trinity here?
What do we have now - the Quartinety?

How in hell is it possible to pray to Mary?
Someone has to explain this to me...