1. Joined
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    03 Apr '07 14:47
    How can the Lord help us if we refuse to believe in him!!??
  2. Hmmm . . .
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    03 Apr '07 14:56
    Originally posted by Jay Joos
    How can the Lord help us if we refuse to believe in him!!??
    How can a physician treat an unconscious patient?
  3. Joined
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    03 Apr '07 15:00
    Originally posted by Jay Joos
    How can the Lord help us if we refuse to believe in him!!??
    There was me thinking he was all powerful and benevolent. Go figure...
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    03 Apr '07 15:06
    Originally posted by Starrman
    There was me thinking he was all powerful and benevolent. Go figure...
    He is a vengeful God too... if we constantly put up barriers then i feel the Lord will feel ousted.... we chose free will therefore we deal with it...
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    03 Apr '07 15:08
    Originally posted by vistesd
    How can a physician treat an unconscious patient?
    Wake up and ask for help and you shall receive it.... you get the jist...
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    03 Apr '07 15:17
    Originally posted by Jay Joos
    He is a vengeful God too... if we constantly put up barriers then i feel the Lord will feel ousted.... we chose free will therefore we deal with it...
    I'm shaking in my boots.
  7. Joined
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    03 Apr '07 15:23
    Originally posted by Starrman
    I'm shaking in my boots.
    You must have very small feet...
  8. Hmmm . . .
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    03 Apr '07 15:32
    Originally posted by Jay Joos
    He is a vengeful God too... if we constantly put up barriers then i feel the Lord will feel ousted.... we chose free will therefore we deal with it...
    How is the God that is agape vengeful? When is revenge an act of love? [Note: John does not say that God is loving, along with other attributes—he says that God is love.] Methinks you may be reading the NT through the lens of the OT, rather than the other way round.

    1st Corinthians 13:4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never ends...

    ________________________________

    So, God will not heal the person who remains unconscious? Spiritual unconsciousness is itself what needs healing. Spiritual illusion is what is the result of “the fall.” Soterias, salvation, has the root meaning of heal or cure.

    In the parable of the Good Samaritan, God is the Samaritan, who took care of an unconscious Judean even though Judeans generally hated Samaritans; the samaritan did not ask to be loved, or even recognized, first—nor even afterward, for that matter.
  9. Joined
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    03 Apr '07 15:38
    Originally posted by vistesd
    How is the God that [b]is agape vengeful? When is revenge an act of love? [Note: John does not say that God is loving, along with other attributes—he says that God is love.] Methinks you may be reading the NT through the lens of the OT, rather than the other way round.

    1st Corinthians 13:4 Love is patient; love is kind; love ...[text shortened]... amaritan did not ask to be loved, or even recognized, first—nor even afterward, for that matter.[/b]
    You put it so well... Im just a simple fellow who feels that all the hatred in this world is pushing God away.... he wants to help but people hate him and dont believe in him so how can he help if we wont help ourselves... i take it im right in saying he didnt want us to have free will...
  10. Hmmm . . .
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    03 Apr '07 15:56
    Originally posted by Jay Joos
    You put it so well... Im just a simple fellow who feels that all the hatred in this world is pushing God away.... he wants to help but people hate him and dont believe in him so how can he help if we wont help ourselves... i take it im right in saying he didnt want us to have free will...
    I’m not going to use the term “free will,” because there are different understandings of what that entails. I will simply use “the ability to choose.” In order to have the ability to choose, one must be able to distinguish choices. This goes to the story of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil—where, in the Hebrew, the two words just mean anything one would judge good or bad, not strictly with regard to morality.

    If God did not want the first humans to have that knowledge, then he did not want them to be able to choose...

    ___________________________

    Note: just to avoid confusion, I do not use the word “God” to refer to a being, but to being-itself. Strictly, I am not a theist but a monist, or non-dualist.

    I also read the biblical stories like that of "the fall" as stories--sometimes profound stories aimed at deeper truths than just historical fact, but stories nonetheless.
  11. Joined
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    03 Apr '07 16:00
    Originally posted by vistesd
    I’m not going to use the term “free will,” because there are different understandings of what that entails. I will simply use “the ability to choose.” In order to have the ability to choose, one must be able to distinguish choices. This goes to the story of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil—where, in the Hebrew, the two words just mean anything o ...[text shortened]... es profound stories aimed at deeper truths than just historical fact, but stories nonetheless.
    You are fascinating.... oh....why cant we all just get along !!!! lol🙂
  12. RDU NC
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    03 Apr '07 16:05
    Originally posted by Jay Joos
    You are fascinating.... oh....why cant we all just get along !!!! lol🙂
    You seem to be quite insane. Or high the vile starbucks...
  13. Joined
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    03 Apr '07 16:10
    Originally posted by Big Mac
    You seem to be quite insane. Or high the vile starbucks...
    I assure you Big Mac my mind is as sane as ever... im just inwardly and outwardly praising the Lord... do you have any further comments on my sanity? or do you have anything to add to this thread ! 🙂
  14. RDU NC
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    03 Apr '07 16:15
    Originally posted by Jay Joos
    He is a vengeful God too... if we constantly put up barriers then i feel the Lord will feel ousted.... we chose free will therefore we deal with it...
    Ok, when did "we" choose free will?
    Who is this god that can only respond to man's actions?
    Is this god not self-motivated or only reactionary?
    Is this god petty in "his" revenge or "rigtheous?"
    Is this god not "bigger" and "stronger" than the barriers "we constantly put up?"
    If your religion is based on the Bible, then reference from the Bible this god of whom you speak.
  15. Joined
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    03 Apr '07 16:22
    Originally posted by Big Mac
    Ok, when did "we" choose free will?
    Who is this god that can only respond to man's actions?
    Is this god not self-motivated or only reactionary?
    Is this god petty in "his" revenge or "rigtheous?"
    Is this god not "bigger" and "stronger" than the barriers "we constantly put up?"
    If your religion is based on the Bible, then reference from the Bible this god of whom you speak.
    Questions always questions....if you read your bible your answers lie within...im not going to start quoting this and that and get all heavy...who are we to question God.

    I have a feeling you know the answers to your questions...
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