Believers, Non-Believers & Morality

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Hold on old chap. When did I say you were lying?

Am I not the "you" you are referring to in your last post?

Originally posted by @fmf
Am I not the "you" you are referring to in your last post?

Look up the definition of 'can'. If you can lie does that mean you're lying? 🙄

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Look up the definition of 'can'. If you can lie does that mean you're lying? 🙄

Everybody "can" lie. What are you on about?

Originally posted by @fmf
Everybody "can" lie. What are you on about?

What I'm on about is that with your definition it is impossible to prove anyone a liar if they simply claimed that they believed the lie they were spreading was true. I'll stick with the dictionary definition, works better for me.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
What I'm on about is that with your definition it is impossible to prove anyone a liar if they simply claimed that they believed the lie they were spreading was true.

What do you mean "prove" someone is a liar? What are you talking about? Court cases? Perjury?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
I'll stick with the dictionary definition, works better for me.

You mean 1 b @ https://www.merriam-webster.com or dictionary definitions generally? Whichever one you seize upon and decide to use, it's your prerogative, I suppose, although I get the impression your real issue - more generally - is interpersonal life skills rather than the definition of the word "lie" per se.

Originally posted by @fmf
You mean 1 b @ https://www.merriam-webster.com or dictionary definitions generally? Whichever one you seize upon and decide to use, it's your prerogative, I suppose, although I get the impression your real issue - more generally - is interpersonal life skills rather than the definition of the word "lie" per se.

I guess it's your prerogative as well to pretend 1 b doesn't exist either. As long as you convince yourself it's true that it doesn't exist you're not lying.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
I guess it's your prerogative as well to pretend 1 b doesn't exist either. As long as you convince yourself it's true that it doesn't exist you're not lying.

I am not pretending it doesn't exist. It is a poorly written definition of the word "lie". I reject it. I think it would be foolish to use it and I never have and never will.

Originally posted by @fmf
I am not pretending it doesn't exist. It is a poorly written definition of the word "lie". I reject it. I think it would be foolish to use it and I never have and never will.

How do you prove that someone didn't know something?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
How do you prove that someone didn't know something?

In what circumstances would you want to "prove" it?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
An untruth is a lie regardless of how you try to sugarcoat it.

An unintentional error is not a lie.

But you know this already. (However you sugarcoat it).

Originally posted by @fmf
In what circumstances would you want to "prove" it?

In any circumstance when you want to establish whether someone lied or not. Is it finally dawning upon you how ridiculous your position is?

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
An unintentional error is not a lie.

But you know this already. (However you sugarcoat it).

How do you prove an unintentional error?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
In any circumstance when you want to establish whether someone lied or not. Is it finally dawning upon you how ridiculous your position is?

My position is not ridiculous at all. In fact, I don't think you even understand what my position is because it is not the slightest bit controversial and it's got you trying a bit too hard to be contrary. If a court or tribunal or some such needs to prove someone is lying there are rules for investigating and cross-examining testimony and weighing evidence etc.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
How do you prove an unintentional error?

Prove what to whom? Ghost of a Duke has explained that he inadvertently made a tiny error on page 1 ~ what does he have to prove? And to whom does he have to prove it?