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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    15 Apr '18 08:29
    What can non-believers ~ and contemporary secular society more broadly ~ learn about morality from religious people and religious institutions once the notions of everlasting life, divine law and "sin" are taken out of the equation?
  2. 15 Apr '18 10:27
    Originally posted by @fmf
    What can non-believers ~ and contemporary secular society more broadly ~ learn about morality from religious people and religious institutions once the notions of everlasting life, divine law and "sin" are taken out of the equation?
    Without the notions of divine law and sin, morality becomes a matter of personal preference.
  3. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    15 Apr '18 10:51
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    Without the notions of divine law and sin, morality becomes a matter of personal preference.
    This is what contemporary secular society can learn about morality from religious people such as yourself, is that your answer to the OP?
  4. Subscriber Rajk999online
    Enjoying
    15 Apr '18 11:20
    Originally posted by @fmf
    What can non-believers ~ and contemporary secular society more broadly ~ learn about morality from religious people and religious institutions once the notions of everlasting life, divine law and "sin" are taken out of the equation?
    A decent moral law abiding atheist will be disgusted by what goes on in many churches. If you remove the things you mention, then the teachings will go the other way.

    Remove God from the equation and these church people will have to learn how to live normal lives of truthfulness, honesty, hard work, self reliance, integrity and a whole long list of virtues which are in the bible but which they ignore because they are saved.
  5. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    15 Apr '18 12:29 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    Without the notions of divine law and sin, morality becomes a matter of personal preference.
    I have no notion of divine law but that doesn't mean my morality is a personal preference. Far from it.

    Unless you think a person's conscience is governed by personal preference? (As opposed to the way they were brought up).
  6. 15 Apr '18 15:23 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @fmf
    What can non-believers ~ and contemporary secular society more broadly ~ learn about morality from religious people and religious institutions once the notions of everlasting life, divine law and "sin" are taken out of the equation?
    We can learn - or verify - that humans have historically enshrined their moral codes in religion in order to stifle dissent from threatening the established order. Whether the moral code actually has a divine provenance is not an allowed question.

    Since the predominant religious spirit of this forum is Christian, we can learn about how Constantine used Christianity to this end. If we care to learn.

    This has little to do, pro or con, with actual Christianity.
  7. Standard member Romans1009
    Retire tiger?
    15 Apr '18 17:44
    Originally posted by @fmf
    What can non-believers ~ and contemporary secular society more broadly ~ learn about morality from religious people and religious institutions once the notions of everlasting life, divine law and "sin" are taken out of the equation?
    The Sermon on the Mount in the Gospel of Matthew and the book of Proverbs are good places to start.
  8. Standard member Romans1009
    Retire tiger?
    15 Apr '18 17:45
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    I have no notion of divine law but that doesn't mean my morality is a personal preference. Far from it.

    Unless you think a person's conscience is governed by personal preference? (As opposed to the way they were brought up).
    You studied theology and have no notion of divine law? Are you kidding?
  9. Standard member Romans1009
    Retire tiger?
    15 Apr '18 17:46
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    A decent moral law abiding atheist will be disgusted by what goes on in many churches. If you remove the things you mention, then the teachings will go the other way.

    Remove God from the equation and these church people will have to learn how to live normal lives of truthfulness, honesty, hard work, self reliance, integrity and a whole long list of virtues which are in the bible but which they ignore because they are saved.
    You really hate people who go to church. What a pity you’re castigating and denigrating tens of millions of people based on your perceptions of a few.

    Sick!
  10. Standard member Romans1009
    Retire tiger?
    15 Apr '18 17:49
    Originally posted by @fmf
    What can non-believers ~ and contemporary secular society more broadly ~ learn about morality from religious people and religious institutions once the notions of everlasting life, divine law and "sin" are taken out of the equation?
    The OP, imo, may have been better worded if it referred to the Bible instead of religious people and religious institutions, since the Bible is the basis of two of the three major religions and is the source of wisdom and eternal truths.
  11. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    15 Apr '18 17:54
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    The OP, imo, may have been better worded if it referred to the Bible instead of religious people and religious institutions, since the Bible is the basis of two of the three major religions and is the source of wisdom and eternal truths.
    Theists (or anyone else, for that matter) can address the OP through the prism of whatever religion or religions they want.
  12. Standard member Romans1009
    Retire tiger?
    15 Apr '18 18:02
    Originally posted by @fmf
    Theists (or anyone else, for that matter) can address the OP through the prism of whatever religion or religions they want.
    Well, as I said, the Sermon on the Mount and book of Proverbs are good places to start for non-believers interested in what they can learn of morality through religion.
  13. 15 Apr '18 18:11
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    Well, as I said, the Sermon on the Mount and book of Proverbs are good places to start for non-believers interested in what they can learn of morality through religion.
    If you understood what Jesus was saying in the Sermon on the Mount and elsewhere, you'd be opposed to Donald Trump and those who hold similar beliefs. Based on your posting style, it would seem that you are an admirer.
  14. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    15 Apr '18 18:11
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    You studied theology and have no notion of divine law? Are you kidding?
    I don't see why studying theology would make an atheist see any laws observed by or imposed upon a group of people as being "divine".
  15. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    15 Apr '18 18:14
    Originally posted by @romans1009
    The Sermon on the Mount in the Gospel of Matthew and the book of Proverbs are good places to start.
    Do the Sermon on the Mount and the Book of Proverbs create any moral obligations?