Beyond "Going to Heaven"

+++++++++++++++++
Nice post. I see there being two different extremes. On the one hand, many see our faith and subsequent salvation as no more than a ticket to heaven.
+++++++++++++++++++++

Well put. Many people, including many Christians, think that to be born again is the receiving of a "ticket" to be admitted into heaven. At best this is very superficial.

Birth is a matter of life. Life is a matter of growth and development. Life is a matter of a process leading to maturity. We are "born again" to "grow again". And into what are we growing?

We are growing into the full mingling of Divinity and humanity - the mingling of God and man.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
All we can do is just continue to suffer unimaginably and just hold on for the life to come.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What the New Testament portrays is using our present uncomfortable circumstances as a catalyst to drive into living the new life in Christ.

An old saying for Christians suffering use to be "There's no way out except up." That means we are forced out of ourselves - out of living independently, into living by the indwelling of Christ. Then our faith is in His indestructible resurrection life, not in our natural life.

++++++++++++++++++++++++
It has notihing to do with our existence in this temperal world. On the other hand, our salvation to many is nothing more than inhancing our worldly positions in some form or fashion thus negating our eternal salvaion for a worldly temperal one. However, I say it has to do with both. Christ said that he came to give us life in the life to come as well as enhancing our current life on earth.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I have written a few times on this board that I would have no regrets, even if I were to find out that I had been deceived about Jesus.

As far as this earthly life it was the best possible life I could have lived - living unto Jesus.

However, I don't believe that we will find out that we were deceived. Jesus Christ is the most BELIEVABLE Person I ever knew.

Originally posted by jaywill
John 14 speaks of the Lord Jesus preparing a place for us that where He is we may be also. The place is the Father's house. And the Father's house is the mystical body of Christ not heaven.

In the second chapter Jesus said that the Jew's should not make His Father's house a den of thieves. He was speaking of the physical temple. Then He said that if th made a collective. This is now His Father's house as the resurrected Body Christ.

"Don’t you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself" (1 Corinthians 6:19).

For clarification purposes, just so I don't misunderstand -- you're not suggesting that believers are swallowed up in the body of Christ at the expense of each individual's unique personality, right? After all, the verse from Corinthians above makes it clear that our bodies are God's temple as well, apart from the collective temple of God where Christ is the Cornerstone.

Other passages reveal how God intends to fashion for us new eternal bodies with which to house our spirits (2 Corinthians 5:1). Mustn't our new bodies dwell some place just as our present bodies do? I somewhat understand, at least the communicable aspect of, the mystical Christ "who fills all things everywhere with himself" (Ephesians 1:23). Why must this mystical union of all believers in Christ be lacking a world? I ask, because your rendering strongly suggests that there is no world in which our new bodies live, and move and have a being. (By 'world' I mean a place only dissimilar to our present one in its "glorious freedom from death and decay" (Romans 8:21), but keeping essentially the same utility.)

It seems that if one takes an over-literal view of this mystical bond between Christ and the redeemed, such a reading fails to explain how God can "seat us together" with Christ (right next to/equal status with). "And He raised us up together with Him and made us sit down together [giving us joint seating with Him] in the heavenly sphere [by virtue of our being] in Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed One)" (Ephesians 2:6, AMP). Are you sure your rendering is not over-literal? Or do I misunderstand you?

---------------

EDIT: Am I being clear enough here? Is it possible to be clear enough? We must be kidding ourselves if we pretend to have even the slightest idea what eternity in the presence of God will be like. 😲

Originally posted by jaywill
One damnable by product of the false notion of "going to heaven" is that it undermines that the spiritual battle is over the earth. If all of God's people escape away into heaven forever the Devil will boast that he has won the victory.

Jesus said that the meek shall inherit the earth. The battle is over the earth. Who will win the earth? Satan and his ...[text shortened]... across the earth. And it will so that He will would be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Hey jwill, you and I really part company on this one.
Will you please explain 1 Cor. 15:52, 1 Thess. 4:17, 2 Thess. 2:1, and Phili. 3:20,21.
I have a friend that I've been debating this issue with for quite sometime. I would be interested in your explanation.

Originally posted by josephw
Hey jwill, you and I really part company on this one.
Will you please explain 1 Cor. 15:52, 1 Thess. 4:17, 2 Thess. 2:1, and Phili. 3:20,21.
I have a friend that I've been debating this issue with for quite sometime. I would be interested in your explanation.

Sure brother Joseph. I trust that you may discover that you are not so much in another pathway as you think.

But you have put up a few verses, so I will be rather brief on each one of them. Okay?

Stay tuned.

For Brother Josephw,


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Cor. 15:52, 1 Thess. 4:17, 2 Thess. 2:1, and Phili. 3:20,21.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I understand that your complaint is that these verses argue for God's salvation being a matter of "Going to Heaven" to live forever.

1.) 1 Cor. 15:52 - "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, for the last trumpet will sound, and we will be changed"

This passage deals with the fact that we the redeemed of Christ, will be changed. The corruptible body will put on incorruption. The mortal will put on immortality (see the next verse 53).

Nothing is said here about the location to which the saints are taken. The passage is not saying much at all about physical transfer to another place. It is about being glorified in the body at the rapture. We will all be changed.

Where we go and how long we will be there is not touched in this passage. Am I right?

2.) 1 Thess. 4:17 - "Then we who are living, who are left remaining, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will be always with the Lord"

Okay, this verse does talk about a physical transfer. There is no question about that.

However:

a.) The transfer is to the air. It does not say to heaven.

b.) It does say the believers will afterwards "be always with the Lord".

It is only an assumption that to be with the Lord always means to be in Heaven always. If the Lord comes down to the earth we can be with the Lord where He is, namely ruling on the earth.

I think you may be reading "be always with the Lord" but thinking "be always [in heaven] ". You are assuming something that the passage really doesn't say.

And in the final book of Revelation we see New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God and the Lamb is on the throne in the midst of the city. We are therefore all with the Lord yet coming down out of heaven from God.

3.) 2 Thess. 2:1 - "Now we ask you, brothers, with regard to the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him"

This simply says that we are going to gather together to meet the Lord Jesus in the manifestation of His parousia, His coming.

Does it say we are going to Heaven to live forever? I don't see that. It simply says we are gathering to meet the Lord. Even if we assume that after this gathering we go to Heaven it does not hint that we remain there for eternity.

4.) Phili. 3:20,21 - "For our commonwealth exists in the heavens, from which also we eagerly await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

Who will transfigure the body of our humiliation to be conformed to the body of His glory, according to His operation by which He is able even to subject all things to Himself."


This verse says a number of things. Yet none of them imply living everlasting up in Heaven.

Our citizenship, our commonwealth as saved believers, is in the heavens. That is the place of the origin of our commonwealth. It is sourced in the Heavens where Christ is carrying on His heavenly ministry.

Notice Paul does not say that our commonwealth WILL BE in the heavens. Though Paul is on the earth at the time of this writing he says our commonwealth IS in the heavens. Therefore we can have our commonwealth from the source of Heaven without us physically being there.

We may even visit the Heaven, the place of the origin of the believer's citizenship and commonwealth. That does not mean that we have to remain there forever to enjoy such a commonwealth.

Once again the final picture in Revelation 21 and 22 is the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God. Though the Holy City comes down out of Heaven the commonwealth and citizenship is still sourced in Heaven and has its origin in Heaven.

Having said that I would add. When I first read the Bible I saw at the conclusion what appeared to be Heaven and Earth coming together as one. So it might be Okay to say that earth and Heaven kind of come together.

However, Revelation is deeply symbolic. It was made known to us "by signs" (1:1) And what I really think is being depicted there in chapters 21 and 22 is that God and man are mingling together as one.

Rather than the main thing being the joining of two places, I think the main thing is the joining of Humanity with Divinity. God and man become united in oneness. But He is the Source and Head of this united Entity. And we the saved are the Body of this mingled Entity under the headship of Christ and God.

Where the believers are really "going" is into this union, into this mingling, into this organic joining of God and man to be New Jerusalem.

She is seen coming down out of Heaven from God.

Originally posted by jaywill
For Brother Josephw,


[b]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Cor. 15:52, 1 Thess. 4:17, 2 Thess. 2:1, and Phili. 3:20,21.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I understand that your complaint is that these verses argue for God's salvation being a matter of "Going to Heaven" to live forever.

1.) 1 Cor. 15:52 - "In a moment, in the twinkling of ...[text shortened]... to be New Jerusalem.

She is seen coming down out of Heaven from God.

Well guess what? I can't argue with that. You're right that these verses really don't say 'we're going to heaven'. This idea of going to heaven, and saying 'when I die I'm going to heaven' is from the perspective of eternity, as it says in Eph. 1:10 when all things are gathered to him.
Or even at the end when there will be a new heaven and a new earth.
In the ages to come.

But being caught up to meet the Lord in the air sounds like a whole lot closer to heaven than where I am now. But that's not exactly true is it?
Col. 3:3 "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God".

Well, maybe that verse is misapplied.

Originally posted by josephw
Well guess what? I can't argue with that. You're right that these verses really don't say 'we're going to heaven'. This idea of going to heaven, and saying 'when I die I'm going to heaven' is from the perspective of eternity, as it says in Eph. 1:10 when all things are gathered to him.
Or even at the end when there will be a new heaven and a new earth.
In , and your life is hid with Christ in God".

Well, maybe that verse is misapplied.

First Thessalonian 4:17 is your nearest and strongest example.

But if you study eschatology carefully, I think that you will see that this event refers to something that will happen after Jesus has left Heaven and is hovering near to the earth.

The corporate Manchild in chapter 12 is taken up to God and to His throne. I take this to be a rapture to Heaven, the third heaven. But in the days just before the end of the great tribulation Christ journeys from that place to hover over the earth's surface. He is concealed in the cloud as revealed in chapter 10 of Revelation. He is near the earth yet concealed.

Then He is on the cloud in chapter 14. And in chapter 16 He comes down to the earth and illuminates the planet with His glory. I am covering these points only lightly and briefly.

The bottom line here is that the event of First Thessalonian 4:17 is in reference to His location near the earth, on the cloud, and taking the believers to the air, not to heaven.

From the air where He has taken this group He will then set up his judgment seat to determine rewards and disciplines to His redeemed. The rewarded then come down with Him to the earth's surface to defeat the Antichrist with Him over the Holy Land.

Rapture to the air in First Thess. 4:17 is just that. It is not rapture to the third heavens. He has left there by that time to journey to the earth.

Now you would have had a stronger case to say that the Manchild of Revelation 12 is raptured to Heaven. With this I would have to agree. But, they don't stay there. They return to the earth with Christ to gather those who are left remaining in 1 Thess 4:17 and form an army of overcomers to fight at Armageddon.

First Christ is in Heaven.

Then Christ comes down to be near the earth in a concealed way.

Then He manifests Himself in the air in an open way.

Then He gathers those alive and left remaining to the air.

Then from the total number of His redeemed He grants the overcomers the reward of accompanying Him to His defeat of the Antichrist and company in the Holy Land.

Being always with the Lord is relative. We are with the Lord now. Yet we can be with the Lord to a greater degree when either we are raptured or He comes to the earth.

"Behold I am with you all the days, even to the consummation of the age" (Matt. 28:20)

The undo stress of "Going to Heaven when I die" is not too good.

Why?

God is the God of the living. We should not give people the impression that you have to go to the realm of DEATH in order to be normally with God.

Yes, when you die you may go to Paradise as a believer. But you are unclothed in death. You need to be clothed in the resurrection body. Normality therefore is governed by resurrection.

It is not God's plan that we all go to the realm of DEATH to be with God. That makes Him the God of the DEAD. That dictates that only in the sphere of DEATH can one be normally with God. This contrary to what the New Testament portrays as full salvation.

Death is the last enemy to be conquered. Am I right?

We should not emphasize so much the link between DEATH and HEAVEN - making DEATH the doorway into HEAVEN and a heavenly eternity.

Too much stress on this - "I die and I go to Heaven forever," has implication of two false ideas:

1.) God cannot bring His kingdom to the earth.

2.) One must be in the realm of the dead in order to be normally with God.

Originally posted by jaywill
The undo stress of "Going to Heaven when I die" is not too good.

Why?

God is the God of the living. We should not give people the impression that you have to go to the realm of DEATH in order to be normally with God.

Yes, when you die you may go to Paradise as a believer. But you are unclothed in death. You need to be clothed in the resurrection o the earth.

2.) One must be in the realm of the dead in order to be normally with God.

God is the God of the living. We should not give people the impression that you have to go to the realm of DEATH in order to be normally with God.

"For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far" (Phillippians 1:21-23).

I don't believe it is scripturally tenable to say that a believer goes to the 'realm of DEATH' when he or she dies. After all, Jesus said, "If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death" (John 8:52). And Peter, describing believers who have died, said, "That is why the Good News was preached to those who are now dead—so although they were destined to die like all people, they now live forever with God in the Spirit" (1 Peter 4:6).

If we are 'made alive unto God' while living, in death shall we cease being 'alive unto God'? No, because "nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life" (Romans 8:38). And Paul encourages us so, in saying, "So you also should consider yourselves to be dead to the power of sin and alive to God through Christ Jesus" (Romans 6:11), "even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:5-6).

Note that these proclamations are past tense; our spirits have already been resurrected and even now dwell with God in the 'heavenly realms', because "whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. Christ died and rose again for this very purpose—to be Lord both of the living and of the dead" (Romans 14:8).

Originally posted by jaywill
The undo stress of "Going to Heaven when I die" is not too good.

Why?

God is the God of the living. We should not give people the impression that you have to go to the realm of DEATH in order to be normally with God.

Yes, when you die you may go to Paradise as a believer. But you are unclothed in death. You need to be clothed in the resurrection o the earth.

2.) One must be in the realm of the dead in order to be normally with God.

Furthermore, I believe it is biblically sound that a Christian should keep those heavenly places constantly in mind. Heaven should be our highest aim and inspiration. In fact, believers would be far better off keeping their eternal inheritance in mind perpetually.

Notice how in the following passage the author of Hebrews encourages us to keep our eyes on Jesus, where he is seated in the place of honor beside God’s throne:

"Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a huge crowd of witnesses to the life of faith, let us strip off every weight that slows us down, especially the sin that so easily trips us up. And let us run with endurance the race God has set before us. We do this by keeping our eyes on Jesus, the champion who initiates and perfects our faith. Because of the joy awaiting him, he endured the cross, disregarding its shame. Now he is seated in the place of honor beside God’s throne. Think of all the hostility he endured from sinful people; then you won’t become weary and give up" (Hebrews 12:1-3).

Notice also that Christ endured the cross because of the joy awaiting him. Clearly the author is telling us to do the same; that is, to look forward to the joy awaiting us while we endure our crosses on earth (whatsoever our individual crosses may be).

And God obviously has a plan for the earth, "creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God" (Romans 8:21), so I also don't understand why the hope of going to heaven when you die gives rise to the false belief that "God cannot bring His kingdom to the earth"? Not only that, but, as I've already described, how can the hope of going to heaven when you die give rise to the false belief that "One must be in the realm of the dead in order to be normally with God", since we already sit with Christ in heavenly places?

---------------------

Overall, it's unclear to me what you are attempting to prove. If we are in heaven in spirit now, while we are alive in the flesh, then when will we ever not be in heaven in spirit? We may need to be given new bodies, but whether we are in them or not we are still alive to the Lord.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
[b]God is the God of the living. We should not give people the impression that you have to go to the realm of DEATH in order to be normally with God.

"For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: ery purpose—to be Lord both of the living and of the dead" (Romans 14:8).[/b]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far" (Phillippians 1:21-23).
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

To "be with Christ" is a matter of degree. Paul finds it hard to choose to remain alive or be martyred to depart to be with Christ is far better. Remember in the same book Christ is to be magnified in Paul's body whether through life or through death. So while living certainly Paul is with Christ already and Christ is with Him being magnified in His body (Phil. 1:20).


I agree with your thought here. However, Paul is with Christ already as a living person. So this being with Christ is not in absolute terms but in relative terms. In Paradise, as a departed saint, he will be with Christ to a greater degree.

He will stay for the sake of the churches under his labors. But he would enjoy Christ's presence to a greater degree if he chose martyrdom for the gospel.

Having conceded your good of point of Phil.1:21-23, I would add - In Second Corinthians Paul teaches that to be "unclothed" before God is not desireable. He and the Apostles would rather be "clothed upon". This means to be with Christ with the resurrected and glorified body is superior to being found naked with Christ as only an immaterial soul/spirit.

"For also in this we groan, longing to be clothed upon with our dwelling place from heaven [the glorified body]. If indeed, being clothed, we will not be found naked.

For also we who are in this tabernacle groan, being burdened, in that we do not desire to be unclothed, but clothed upon, that what is mortal may be sawllowed up in life." (2 Cor. 5:2-4)

To be "unclothed" and with Christ as he mentioned in Philippians is inferior to being "clothed upon" with his resurrected body in glory.

To depart and be an unclothed immaterial person is to be found naked. This is not the apostle's foremost hope. They long to be clothed upon with the glorified body in resurrection.

People who stress dying and going to heaven are over stressing the desireability of being unclothed and naked, albeit "with Christ" to a greater degree. I do not believe that any naked unclothed humans are in Heaven. Such unclothed saints who are with Christ to a greater extent are under the earth in Abraham's Bosom. They are in Paradise where the Lord took the believing thief who died with Him on the day He was crucified.

Please keep this in mind. In Paradise or in the pleasant section of Hades - "Abraham's Bosom" Paul would be "with Christ" to a greater degree than he would be serving on the earth as a laboring apostle. But this is not as desireable as to be "clothed upon" with the resurrected and transfigured physical body which is the completed "redemption of the body"



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I don't believe it is scripturally tenable to say that a believer goes to the 'realm of DEATH' when he or she dies. After all, Jesus said, "If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death" (John 8:52).
+++++++++++++++++++++++++


Another good point. However, two responses:

1.) Paul does talk about those who have "died in Christ". So we have to admit that saints in Christ do also die as the unbelievers die.

Albeit, the term "sleep" is sometimes used for those who have died in Christ.

2.) My translation, the Recovery Version, has that he shall not taste death forever. In other words those translators of John 8:58 render the proper Greek meaning to be that no one who believes into Jesus Christ will taste death forever.

He may taste death. But he will not taste death forever.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And Peter, describing believers who have died, said, "That is why the Good News was preached to those who are now dead—so although they were destined to die like all people, they now live forever with God in the Spirit" (1 Peter 4:6).
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

My take on the proper interpretation of this passage is a little different. But I will not take that up now in detail.

I think that what Peter meant was that some had the gospel preached to them who latter died.

Peter does, however, speak elsewhere about the gospel being proclaimed to the spirits in the realm of death. I think this was an announcement rather than a preaching for a response. Christ, while He was in Hades, accounced His victory over some of the previously rebellious ones.

But First Peter 4:6 I take to mean that some who were alive when they received the gospel died. God's governmental dealing with them (which is the subject of Peter's epistle) did not spare them from physical death.

This is our experience. We receive the gospel of eternal life. However we may still have to die in the Lord and await resurrection. The whole realm of human experience is a discipline from God upon man. And we are not spared some of this discipline simply because we are Christians.

God uses a job, the hardships of the world, sometimes unimployment, sometimes sickness, and even physical old age and death to perfect us into holiness.

Peter comforts the believers who may have been perplexed by this as believers are sometimes known to question "Why then do bad things happen to us?"

The Gospel was preached to some who nevertheless died. This was for their perfecting in grace and holiness in the Holy Spirit.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++==
If we are 'made alive unto God' while living, in death shall we cease being 'alive unto God'? No, because "nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life" (Romans 8:38).
++++++++++++++++++++++++

Amen, to these words.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And Paul encourages us so, in saying, "So you also should consider yourselves to be dead to the power of sin and alive to God through Christ Jesus" (Romans 6:11), "even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:5-6).
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Amen, to these words also.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Note that these proclamations are past tense; our spirits have already been resurrected and even now dwell with God in the 'heavenly realms',
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That is correct. Amen. Though I am physically on the earth I am raised with Him and seated with Him in the heavenlies.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
because "whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. Christ died and rose again for this very purpose—to be Lord both of the living and of the dead" (Romans 14:8).
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A good point. Paul says He is the Lord of both the living and the dead. I will not ignore or supress that passage.

But Jesus also said that God was the God of the living and not the dead.

"I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob ... He is not the God of the dead, but oft he living" (See Matthew 22:32,33)

My purpose here is not to pit one passage against another. We must believe both as God's truth. Amen ?

But we have this total picture, Matthew 22:32,33 shows that the destiny of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the Old Testament saints with those who die in Christ, is to be resurrected. God is the God of the living. So His believer must be resurrected to be living.

But let us also remember that His Lordship is over the living and the dead. This way the God of the living is Lord of both the living and the dead. So I think we can embrace both Matthew 22:32,33 and Romans 14:8.

Now notice, most of the passages that you put forth are mostly on God's victory over death, IMO.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Furthermore, I believe it is biblically sound that a Christian should keep those heavenly places constantly in mind. Heaven should be our highest aim and inspiration. In fact, believers would be far better off keeping their eternal inheritance in mind perpetually.

Notice how in the following passage the author of Hebrews encourages us to keep our ey ...[text shortened]... e given new bodies, but whether we are in them or not we are still alive to the Lord.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Furthermore, I believe it is biblically sound that a Christian should keep those heavenly places constantly in mind. Heaven should be our highest aim and inspiration. In fact, believers would be far better off keeping their eternal inheritance in mind perpetually.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

How about Christ Himself be our highest aim?

Would you want to go to Heaven if Christ were not there?

The New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven from God. Where would you rather be, in Heaven watching Christ descend to the earth in New Jerusalem or with Christ descending in New Jerusalem?

I think we should want to be with Christ to the extent that even if He were in Hell we would rather be with Him there then without Him in Heaven. Of course this is hypothetical.

How about Christ is our topmost goal?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Notice how in the following passage the author of Hebrews encourages us to keep our eyes on Jesus, where he is seated in the place of honor beside God’s throne:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I notice. Wonderful. And in Romans 8 Christ is both in us (v, 9-11) and at the right hand of God in the third heavens (v.34).

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a huge crowd of witnesses to the life of faith, let us strip off every weight that slows us down, especially the sin that so easily trips us up. And let us run with endurance the race God has set before us. We do this by keeping our eyes on Jesus, the champion who initiates and perfects our faith. Because of the joy awaiting him, he endured the cross, disregarding its shame. Now he is seated in the place of honor beside God’s throne. Think of all the hostility he endured from sinful people; then you won’t become weary and give up" (Hebrews 12:1-3).
++++++++++++++++++++++++

"He who overcomes, him I will make a pillar in the temple of My God ..." (Rev. 3:12a)


This should alert us that the "temple of My God" is an allegorocal phrase. The "temple" is composed of living human beings. This of course would agree with John 14:1-3,23.

The process of being made a pillar in the temple of Christ's God is the process of sanctification and transformation in life by His life changing dynamic salvation.

Peter also says that the believers are "living stones" to be built up into a spiritual house -

"Coming to Him, a living stone ... with God chosen and precious, You also as living stones are being built up as a spiritual house ..." (1 Peter 2:5)

Rather than "going to Heaven" we, the redeemed, are "going" into the spiritual house by way of transformation, building up, and glorification. The process of God dispensing His divine life and nature into man is bringing man into the mingling of divinity and humanity.

To continue with Revelation 3:10 - "... I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall by no means go out anymore, and I will write upon him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which descends out of heaven from My God, and My new name."

This writing on the on the disciple the name of His God is actually inscribing God's life and nature into the believer - deification.

This writing on the disciple the name of the city of His God shows ownership. The dispensing of God into man makes man possessed by God and God's holy city New Jerusalem.

The allegory is powerful. The name of God is written on the believer. The name of New Jerusalem the city of God is also written on the believer. And the new name of Christ is written on him.

Christ the God-man has become corporate. Christ the God-man has become a collective entity. Christ has become enlarged to be the city New Jerusalem as the mingling of divinity and humanity.

Instead of "going to Heaven" the saved are "going" by means of divine life impartation and transformation, into the city of God.

Paul echoes the same thought when he says the church is the habitation (or dwelling place) of God in spirit:

"In whom all the building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord;

In whom you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in spirit" (Eph. 2:22)

The culmination of human history is God's building. That is God's living temple composed of God dwelling in man and man deified by God's life and nature.

This is the holy city New Jerusalem seen coming down out of heaven from God.

Chapter 14 of John is about Christ bringing man into God. The bringing into God is a building up of the dwelling place of God and man. The obstacles between man and God are all dealt with as Christ goes away to the cross to prepare a place for man in God His Father.

Sin, sins, death, the world, Satan, and the self are all obstacles cleared out of the way by Christ going to Calvary to prepare a place for His redeemed in God. He comes again in resurrection to receive them to Himself.

Christ goes away to the cross to prepare a standing for man in God. Man and God are organically united through the finished work of Christ. He acomplishes redemption which prepares for man a standing in the living God.

" ... for if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will receive you to Myself, that where I am you also may be. (John 14:3)

Where is Jesus Christ? He is in God and God is in Him. He is humanity mingled with God. He is man with God saturating Him. He is in the mutual dwelling of God in man and man in God. He is God-man. He is the universal mingling of divinity and humanity. And He goes to the cross in chapter 14 to prepare for His believers a standing in the very same reality.

God's eternal purpose is to dispense Himself into man.

God's plan is to be mingled with man, be in union with man, and to be in an incorporation with man. This effectively makes man God in life and in nature but not in the Godhead.

The real "going" in the Bible is not to heaven but a "going" into God Himself. He is building Himself His saved people into Himself and building Himself into them.

If this concept is too difficult for any reader consider this. Jesus Christ is the mingling of God and man. Jesus is the union of God and man. Jesus is the incorporation of God in man. God's eternal purpose is to "mass produce" sons of God like Jesus.

Now let's get you all convinced that this is what the Bible says and is not my strange idea:

Romans 8: 29 "Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers".

What does God want here? He wants Christ Jesus to be the "Firstborn among many brothers".

First John 3:2 "Beloved, now we are the children of God, and it has not yet been manifested what we will be. We know that if He is manifested, we will be like Him because we will see Him even as He is."

The believers are being conformed into His image and will be like Him. He is God-man. We are saved to become God-men.

John 17:25 "Father, concerning that which You have given Me, I desire that they also may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory, which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world."

Where Christ is He prays that the Father would bring His saved people to as well. This is in the divine glory, the divine expression of the divine Being, which Christ had before the creation of the universe - before the foundation of the world.

John 17:23 "I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected into one, that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them even as You loved Me."

Christ's prayer cannot go unanswered forever. This prayer is so powerful that it causes all believers in Jesus to be "perfected" into one.

We are in the process of being perfected into one. We are under the perfecting.

Second Peter 1:4 " ... He has granted to us precious and exceedingly great promises that through these you might become partakers of the divine nature ..."

The Triune God has called us not to be spectators of the "divine nature" ; not to be only onlookers of "the divine nature"; not to be only admirers, or worshippers, or witnesses of "the divine nature".

He has granted the saved to become "PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE".

When you receive Jesus into your heart that is the very beginning of you becoming a "PARTAKER" of the divine nature.