1. Joined
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    09 Jun '09 11:321 edit
    This series of posts is not intended to be me further debating the Deity of Christ. That is assumed that the really interested readers have accepted that.

    I can't stop some from trying to make the topic go back there. But for my part I intend to extend FROM that fact that Christ is God incarnate.

    What lies beyond this ? WHY is it important ?

    Some may not be very clear concerning how Christ being God incarnate plays a part in God's salvation.

    You would of course be correct to say that for eternal redemption from the Lamb of God, Christ was the God/man who died and rose for the sinners. That is totally right. And I will assume that as a given.

    Now, what else? Why else is the incarnation of God into the man Jesus important to the eternal purpose of God?

    That is what I would like to develop here.
  2. Joined
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    09 Jun '09 11:451 edit
    There are two great matters in the Bible - Life and Building.

    The principle of God's building is that God builds Himself into man. God's eternal plan is to build Himself into man and mingle Himself with man. That is that divinity and humanity are built up together as one entity.

    Create Verses Building -

    To create is to bring something into existence out of nothing. But to build is to take what already exists and put it together. Building in this discussion refers to God taking two things which are already here and putting them together.

    The ministry of the God/man Jesus Christ is not only to redeem sinners though His redemptive death and resurrection. Beyond this, His plan is to take God and His redeemed people and build them together.

    This is to build God into man and to build man into God for a mutual living house. And the Bible concludes with this climax of human history - New Jerusalem. God has thoroughly builded man and God together to be His dwelling place.

    In short God has EXPANDED what the God/man Jesus is. Here's one verse to encourage the reader that we are on the right track:

    "So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God.

    Being BUILT upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus being the chief cornerstone: In whom all the BUILDING, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord.

    In Whom you also are being BUILT together into a dwelling place of God in spirit." (Eph. 2:19-22)


    We're on the right track reader. Please patiently read on.
  3. Joined
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    09 Jun '09 12:01
    Look at this passage again:

    "So then you ... members of the household of God.

    Being BUILT upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus being the chief cornerstone: In whom all the BUILDING, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord.

    In Whom you also are being BUILT together into a dwelling place of God in spirit." (Eph. 2:19-22)


    Some points:

    1.) There is only ONE "corner stone" - Jesus Christ. To expand Christ into millions of people does not mean that there are many persons worthy of worship.

    There is only one unique cornerstone of this divine/human building. Christ Jesus as the unique God-man. All the other saved persons as "members of the household of God" are the people builded up around this unique cornerstone, to be the corporate dwelling place of God.

    2.)"In whom all the building" means that Jesus Christ is the realm, the sphere within Whom all of this building takes place. Outside of Jesus Christ there is no way for you to be built into this dwelling place of God.

    In Christ the building of us and God is carried out. He is the realm within which God can do this.

    3.) The building of the building is the growing of God's life within man.

    We are born again not simply to receive our "ticket" to everlasting life. Birth is the initiation of GROWTH. And the growth of the divine life in man is the building of God's building.

    "In whom all the building, being fitted together, is GROWING into a holy temple in the Lord."

    The growing is the building. This is a living building. This is an "organic" building. To have Christ grow in us is to be built into the temple.

    And the reason for recieving the divine life of God in Christ is for that life to grow and build the saints together. The life of Christ within fits us together in love for the release of the growth for the producing of the building of God.

    God inabited one man - Jesus, God incarnate. God's eternal purpose is to impart Himself into many people for the enlargement of this mingling of divinity with humanity.

    Here is another plain teaching passage to encourage us that we are on the right track:

    "Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers." (Rom. 8:29)


    Christ - the Firstborn among many brothers. That is many brothers having passed through the process of being born again, and being conformed to the image of His Son.

    Many brothers of Jesus Christ, conformed to the image of the Firstborn Son of God. That is to collectively and corporately become the dwelling place of God in spirit.
  4. Joined
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    09 Jun '09 12:131 edit
    For God to create is to bring into existence out of nothing. For God to build is to take what already exists and put it together.

    God first carried out His building work by coming as the divine Person to be incarnated into humanity to build a man with God. That is a God-man. In the four thousands years from the time of the creation of Adam to the time of Jesus Christ there were many millions of people. But none of them were a building of God with man.

    Before the incarnation of Christ, God was God, and man was man. Before the incarnation of Christ God and man were never mingled.

    They were never mingled until one day when God Himself was incarnated to be born in a manger as a man. This man was a unique man, God and man mingled - a God-man. He is our Lord and Savior.

    This was the beginning of God working Himself into man for the building of the dwelling place of God and man.

    "In whom all the building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord; In whom you also are being builded into a dwelling place of God in spirit." (Eph. 2:21,22)

    Paul is writing to the Christian church in Ephesus. He is telling them that they are being built together, in the realm of Christ, into a dwelling place of God in spirit. That is a living temple where God is bult into His people and His people are built into God.
  5. Joined
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    09 Jun '09 12:331 edit
    God in Christ is constituting Himself into man, making Himself the element of man. His salvation is to constitute us with God as our element to be builded into a corporate dwelling place of God in man.

    This means that His work is to build the divine element into the human element. Jesus the Godman, uniquely anointed to carry out this plan. He is appointed to mingle divinity and humanity together. In doing so the saved sinners become conformed to the image of the Firstborn Son of God. They become His many brothers.

    In mingling God and man together we may even say that God becomes man and man becomes God. But I do not mean that man becomes God in His Godhead as an object of worship.

    The many men mingled with God is not the "cornerstone" of this building. The cornerstone is the object of our worship and adoration. but He is the Elder Brother - the Firstborn Son among many brothers. That is what Romans 8 teaches.

    Such a revelation should become a principle to govern our understanding of God and of God's building. When we talk about the building up of the church or the bulding up of the Body of Christ we should think in terms of the divine element of God being mingled with the human element. God is constituting Himself into man for this mingling.

    Yes I am repeating much. And I will repeat because this is not according to our natural way of thinking.

    We do not think in terms of one life being constituted into another life. God in Christ is working Himself into man.

    Now we have to put the words of Jesus behind this teaching to show that this is indeed what not only Paul taught but Jesus taught. Paul derived it from his Lord Jesus.

    In the following post I will go into John chapter 14.
  6. Standard memberSeitse
    Doug Stanhope
    That's Why I Drink
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    09 Jun '09 15:421 edit
    It's actually simple: God is one and three: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

    It must go through your heart, not through your brain, though.
  7. Joined
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    09 Jun '09 16:174 edits
    Examining God's house in John chapter 14:

    "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe into God, believe also into Me.

    In My Father's house are many abodes; if it were not so I would have told you; for I go and prepare a place for you." (John 14:1,2)


    This discourse preceeds Jesus going to the cross. He comforts the anxious disciples. His going to the cross is actually His going to prepare a place for His disciples in the Father's house.

    "In My Father's house are many abodes; if it were not so I would have told you."

    For three and a half years they have seen a man live in God and God live in a man. Jesus was the living house of God on the earth. Now He wants His disciples to realize that the house of the Father does not have only ONE abode - Himself as the Son, but it has many abodes.

    In other words as God was built into the man Jesus God desires to be built into many people saved by Jesus. If it were so that only Jesus could be mingled with the Father, He would have told us so. In that case we would never expect to share the reality which He (Jesus) enjoys.

    Do not regard this passage as degraded Christianity does. This is not about Jesus going to heaven to fix up mansions there. The passages does not say as in the KJV "In My Father's house there are many [mansions]". Rather the word "abodes" is the plural of the same word found in the singular in verse 23:

    " ... and We will come to him and make an abode with him".

    The many abodes of the Father's house are the many saved people into whom the Triune God will build Himself, mingle Himself with them. If it were only so that one man Jesus could be the mingling of God and man, and that there was no hope for us, He would have told us so.

    But here Jesus is going to prepare a place for the many abodes. He is going to the cross to accomplish an eternal redemption so that He might prepare a place for us in God. The place is a Person. The many abodes are the many saved people built into this Person and He built into them.

    The Father's house has many abodes after Jesus dies on the cross and resurrects to prepare a place for all of us.

    Meditate upon this and we will go on.'
  8. Joined
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    09 Jun '09 16:461 edit
    Jesus , God incarnated in a man was the individual house of God. He tells His disciples that in His Father's house are many abodes. He is going away to Calvary to die a redemptive death which will prepare a way for all of us to enter into the Father's house as the many abodes.

    If He had been the only abode of the Father He would have told us. He goes to prepare a place for us through dying on the cross for our sins, thus making a standing in God for us too.

    "In My Father's house are many abodes; if it were not so I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.

    And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will receive you to Myself, so that where I am you also may be." (John 14:2,3


    Jesus is the abode of God through His incarnation. His saved people become the many abodes of God through Christ's salvation. The sinless Redeemer must go to Calvary and there through death and resurrection prepare a place for all of us to enter into the house of His Father as the many abodes.

    He will in resurrection receive us unto Himself that the reality which He enjoys we may also enjoy. That is where He is we may be also.

    Where is this? This is in the Father. This is in God. This is to build God into man and to build man into God for the house of God.

    Paul received this revelation from Jesus. Paul expressed it in other words. But it is the same truth.

    "So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God.

    Being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone;

    In whom all the building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord;

    In whom you also are being built into a dwelling place of God in spirit." (Eph. 2:19-22)


    Friends we were born for this. This is why God created man. That is to build Himself into man and to constitute man into Himself for the living habitation of God.

    Jesus Christ the God-man is the cornerstone. The revelation of the prophets and prophets is the foundation. That revelation is also Christ Himself. And all those redeemed by Christ are the many abodes to have God grow up in them for the building up of the dwelling place of God in spirit.
  9. Joined
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    10 Jun '09 07:42
    Originally posted by jaywill
    There are two great matters in the Bible - Life and Building....
    ...

    *sigh*

    😴
  10. Joined
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    10 Jun '09 11:537 edits
    Life and building are two great matters in the Bible.
    Life is God Himself. This is not the created life that all creatures have. But here I mean the uncreated and divine life of God.

    And building refers to God working this divine life into human life so that man becomes a corporate expression of the mingling of divinity and humanity.

    John 14 is a good place to see these two matters.

    "In My Father's house are many abodes; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you." (John 14:2)

    Here we see the building of God mentioned, "My Father's house." And we also see the divine life of God in Christ:

    "Thomas said to Him, Lord, we do not know where You are going; how can we know the way? Jesus said to him, I am the way and the reality and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me." (vv. 5,6)

    And here we see life mentioned. Christ is the divine life. Life and building are here in John 14.

    According to the interpretation of John 2:16,21 "My Father's house" refers to the temple, the body of Christ, as God's dwelling place.

    Jesus refered to Himself as the antitype and reality of the temple of God in Jerusalem:

    "Jesus answered and said to them, Destroy this temple, and in thrtee days I will raise it up. Then the Jews said, This temple was built in forty-six years, and You will raise it up in three days?

    But He spoke of the temple of His body. When therefore He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken." (John 2:19-22)


    At that time when Jesus said that if they destroyed the temple of God He [Jesus] would raise it up in three days, the temple of God was only His individual body. But through death and resurrection, the body of Christ has increased to be His mystical corporate Body. This is the church with all the believers in Jesus, who have been regenerated through Christ's resurrection:

    First Peter 1:3 shows His resurrection is the source of their being regenerated:

    "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has regenerated us unto a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."

    In Christ's resurrection the church is the body of Christ, which is the house of God (1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Pet. 2:5; Heb. 3:6), God's habitation (Eph. 2:21-22), God's temple (1 Cor. 3:16-17).

    "In my Father's house are many abodes ..." (14:2a)

    The "many abodes" are tje many members of the Body of Christ (Rom. 12:5), which is God's temple (1 Cor. 3:16-17). This is proven by the fact that the singular of the same Greek word is used in verse 14 when Jesus says that He and His Father, as the divine "We" will come to the lover of Jesus and make an abode with him.

    To make an abode with them is to come to them as divine life. And to build them into the Father's house is to saturatee them, fill them, permeate them, soak them in the divine life.

    Regeneration (being born again), then is for the building of the Father's house the corporate living temple where God is mingled into man.

    "In My Father's house are many abodes; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.

    And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will receive you to Myself, so that where I am you also may be." (vv.2,3)


    Where is He? He is mingled with God. He is totally united with God as to be one organic incorporation of divinity and humanity. His salvation is to bring man to where He is. And His prayer to His Father was that His people would be with Him where He is - in the Father and the Father in Him:

    "Father,concerning that which You have given Me, I desire that they also may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory, which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." (John 17:24)
  11. Joined
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    10 Jun '09 12:25
    I admit that much of this may seem hard to understand for many. But I am intentionally speaking higher things. Some of us need to come up in our appreciation of what the Bible shows.

    What this means to those not yet saved could be this:

    You can realize that your being saved by Jesus is not merely for your individual happiness. It is not even just for your individual escape from hell fires. Your being saved by Jesus is a part of God's eternal purpose to build God into man for His corporate living temple.

    Then you can say to God "Lord Jesus, I need to be saved for your eternal purpose. Lord Jesus I need forgiveness and rebirth for more than my own blessing. Lord Jesus your eternal purpose calls for me to be forgiven and reborn that I too may be a part of your mingling yourself with Your people."

    This gives a greater meaning to being a Christian, and a scriptural meaning, a biblical meaning. I need to be saved for the building up of the living house where God is mingled with man and man is mingled with God. It is for this that God created heaven and earth. And it is for this that God became a man to die and raise from the dead for our redemption and salvation.

    One can start her or his Christian life by consecrating that salvation to the eternal purpose of God building New Jerusalem, the living mutual dwelling place where the Triune God is dispensed into humanity and Jesus the Son of God has "many brothers".

    Lord Jesus I want to be saved for the mass production of Godmen to be brothers of Jesus Christ the Firstborn Son of God. And I want to be builded up into the Father's house where the many abodes express the mingling of God and man.
  12. Joined
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    10 Jun '09 12:28
    Originally posted by Seitse
    It's actually simple: God is one and three: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

    It must go through your heart, not through your brain, though.
    And He can renew our minds can't He?

    He can make His home in our hearts and as a healing renew our fallen minds to be inclined towards God and comprehend the things of God.
  13. Joined
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    11 Jun '09 15:031 edit
    The Bible shows God's desire to build man and God together into a house of God.

    Where is this first seen in the Bible? The first glimpse we get is in Genesis 28.

    [b]And he [Jacob] dreamed a dream that there was a ladder set up on the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it. (Gen. 28:12)

    and Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, Surely Jehovah is in this place, and I did not know it. And he was afraid and said, How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven. (Gen 28:16,17)
    [/b]

    Jacob called the name of this place where he had this awesome dream - Bethel (v.19). Bethel means "house of God".

    In genesis 28 God reveals for the first time that God will build Himself with man by bringing heaven to earth and earth to heaven. You see the ladder connects heaven to earth.

    But how are we to understand that this is building God and man together? It becomes clearer when we consider that Jesus refered to this vision in the Gospel of John:

    You will see heaven opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man. (John 1:51)

    Jesus was saying that He was the reality of this vision of Jacob. Jacob saw a ladder connecting heaven and earth. The angels were going up from the earth to heaven and coming down from heaven to the earth. Jesus on the other hand refered to this passage and said that they would see heaven opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on "the Son of Man".

    This Son of Man then connects heaven to earth. What it really means is that this Son of Man combines Divinity with Humanity. He is the human Bethel the house of God. Jesus is the living dwelling place of God on the earth at that time.

    The angels ascending and coming down shows that the main activity of this "project" is on the earth. They go up from the earth first.

    On the earth God seeks to build Himself into man and man into Himself for a living dwelling place of God. In Jesus He has a beginning. For Jesus is the living Bethel of Jacob's vision.

    Latter Jesus tells the religionists that if they destroy this temple He will raise it up in three days. This reinforces the understanding that by that time the house of God, the temple was the body of Jesus. The real house of His Father was not the temple which took them 46 years to build. It was the incarnated Godman Jesus.

    Anyway, in Genesis 28 we get the first revelation of God's eternal plan to build God into man and connect God with man and man with God for Bethel the house of God.
  14. Joined
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    16 Jun '09 09:57
    What many people do not see is that Jesus made a U-turn.

    I mean that He came to bring God into man. But then He makes a U-turn to bring man into God.

    If we only see that Jesus came and brought God into man to accomplish our forgiveness, we see something in the Bible but in a limited way. It is true but shortsighted.

    Jesus came and went back as a U-turn. In Incarnation He brought God into humanity. He built God into man. But in resurrection He brings man into God - a U-turn.

    The consummation of history is this mingling of God in millions of people and millions of people builded into God - New Jerusalem.

    I don't know how many people, billions perhaps. But God is building a corporate expression of Himself infused, imparted, dispensed into mankind and they united with Him in an "organic" union.
  15. Joined
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    10 Aug '09 11:13
    In this post I wrote many things about Jesus Christ aside from the matter of the last judgment.

    Who understands what I meant by the U-Turn of Christ ?
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