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Alright...here is my point. Since the word Testament means covenant...when did the new covenant begin?
I contend that to be more consistant with the flow of biblical events that it began in Acts Chapter 2.
This would place the gospels in the OT.
No one could obtain the "new birth" that is, receive holy spirit within, until Acts 2.
Luke 24:44-49
44 Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."
45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
46 Then He said to them, "Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,
47 "and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 "And you are witnesses of these things.
49 "Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high."
(NKJ)
Acts 1:4-5
4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me;
5 "for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
(NKJ)
These were the instructions given...then what happens?...
Acts 2:1-4
1 Now when the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
(NKJ)
Acts 2:16-17
16 "But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, that I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your young men shall see visions, your old men shall dream dreams.
(NKJ)
This is when the new covenent began....This is when Christ's Church began.
Originally posted by checkbaiterI find that quite interesting. Then the Gospels would’ve been placed as a kind of “preface” to--or prefiguring of--the new covenant? I think the only Gospel that is fairly well accepted as having been written prior to Acts is Mark (although Luke and Acts are considered to be roughly contemporaneous, with the same author).
Alright...here is my point. Since the word Testament means covenant...when did the new covenant begin?
I contend that to be more consistant with the flow of biblical events that it began in Acts Chapter 2.
This would place the gospels in the OT.
No one could obtain the "new birth" that is, receive holy spirit within, until Acts 2.
Luke 24:44-49
...[text shortened]... am dreams.
(NKJ)
This is when the new covenent began....This is when Christ's Church began.
On the other hand—
The terms “Old Testament” and “New Testament” are strictly terms of Christian understanding, reflecting a viewpoint of (at least partial) Christian “supercesionism.” [sp?] Re your initial question, the Gospels certainly couldn’t be regarded as being part of the canon of Hebrew Scriptures (the Tanach).
For shorthand, I still sometimes refer to the Christian scriptures as the “NT”; unless I slip, I never use the phrase “Old Testament” anymore. (Though I recognize the usage as being a legitimate statement of the Christian understanding.)
Originally posted by lucifershammerha.
Well, you know howard - he can't get a word in when a real debate's on ...
Call this a real debate?
Checkbaiter raises a question. No-one answers it, except to state complete disinterest, then Checkbaiter answers his own question!
I suppose in religious circles, this would be considered a debate!
Originally posted by checkbaiterI disagree, Jesus was the new testament. didnt he say somewhere that he gives us a new comandment. and that he said the old law was not to commit adultry, but the law he gave was not to look upon a women with lust. I dont know, nor do I really care. you do got a point though.
Alright...here is my point. Since the word Testament means covenant...when did the new covenant begin?
I contend that to be more consistant with the flow of biblical events that it began in Acts Chapter 2.
This would place the gospels in the OT.
No one could obtain the "new birth" that is, receive holy spirit within, until Acts 2.
Luke 24:44-49
...[text shortened]... am dreams.
(NKJ)
This is when the new covenent began....This is when Christ's Church began.
Originally posted by checkbaiterIt's an interesting discussion - regarding when the "new" covenant took effect - how it differs from the "old" covenant, etc. But the separations of the Bible into the Old Testament and New Testament is mainly for convenience. The Bible could have been legitimately broken down into 3 parts or 4 parts. The titles of many chapters and section headings, even the enumeration of verses and paragraphs were added to the original autographs. They are not the the "inspired" parts of scripture. They are added to mainly to aid referencing and cross referencing.
Alright...here is my point. Since the word Testament means covenant...when did the new covenant begin?
I contend that to be more consistant with the flow of biblical events that it began in Acts Chapter 2.
This would place the gospels in the OT.
No one could obtain the "new birth" that is, receive holy spirit within, until Acts 2.
Luke 24:44-49
...[text shortened]... am dreams.
(NKJ)
This is when the new covenent began....This is when Christ's Church began.