Bible: Wives, be subject to your own husbands...in everything

Originally posted by Rajk999
I think I said that I understand that Paul was simply establishing a guideline that might be more applicable then. In these times I wont place any emphasis on that. What many religious people have failed to do is to sensibly apply the rules of the Bible to these times which are 2000 years hence.

Some christians do that quite frequently. When it suits them. If it doesn't, they don't.

Example:
"Homosexuals are sinful and should be killed." "Why?" "It says so in the holy scripture."
"Doesn't the holy scripture also say that you shouldn't wear clothes woven with two kinds of yarn?" "Well, yes". "What is your clothes woven of?" "Well, it doesn't matter, this rule is obsolete. It was written so long time ago."

Originally posted by Rajk999
I think I said that I understand that Paul was simply establishing a guideline that might be more applicable then. In these times I wont place any emphasis on that. What many religious people have failed to do is to sensibly apply the rules of the Bible to these times which are 2000 years hence.

Actually, that guideline was just as wrongheaded then as it is now, which is quite common with the teachings of Paul. Contrast this with the teachings of Jesus, which by and large are as applicable now as they were then. They are timeless, i.e., eternal. As such, those who follow the teachings of Jesus have "eternal life". They are living the life of the eternal. God is eternal. Those who follow the teachings of Jesus are living the life of God. Jesus did not teach this because it is not of God, just as many of the teachings of Paul are not of God.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Some christians do that quite frequently. When it suits them. If it doesn't, they don't.

Example:
"Homosexuals are sinful and should be killed." "Why?" "It says so in the holy scripture."
"Doesn't the holy scripture also say that you shouldn't wear clothes woven with two kinds of yarn?" "Well, yes". "What is your clothes woven of?" "Well, it doesn't matter, this rule is obsolete. It was written so long time ago."

That has come up in many Sunday School classes I've attended in my "career" (usually brought up by me!) The general answer is that the Old Testament laws (sacrifices, preparing of certain foods a certain way, the one you mentioned about 2 weaves in one garment,etc.) werer "fulfilled when Christ came to the world. We are no longer bound to any of those sacrificial, Levitical laws because Jesus died (BECAME the sacrifice) to free us from them. Now that's a bit over my head, but then the whole idea of a 100% man/100%God can die and atone for not only all of my sins, but those of everyone else is pretty hard for a mere human to get his head around anyway.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne

Ephesians 5
22[b]Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. 24But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.

Do any Christians here ...[text shortened]... e above, yet believe that the Bible is the "inerrant word of God", how do you reconcile this?[/b]

When man turns away from God's laws, advice and guidance, problems have and will always happen...

Originally posted by galveston75
When man turns away from God's laws, advice and guidance, problems have and will always happen...

Not sure how you intended this to fit in with the OP.

Maybe it'll help if you answer the questions:

Do any Christians here believe in the above? Do any modern Christian denominations?

If any Christians here don't believe in the above, yet believe that the Bible is the "inerrant word of God", how do you reconcile this?

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
That has come up in many Sunday School classes I've attended in my "career" (usually brought up by me!) The general answer is that the Old Testament laws (sacrifices, preparing of certain foods a certain way, the one you mentioned about 2 weaves in one garment,etc.) werer "fulfilled when Christ came to the world. We are no longer bound to any of those sa ...[text shortened]... , but those of everyone else is pretty hard for a mere human to get his head around anyway.

That's right. Some christians interprete the way the suits them at the moment.

Some homophobic christians (an oxymoron?) refer to the bible to justify their homophobia, well ignoring the words of StPaul's word about the three, love hope and [forgot], and the highest of them all is love. They even say that the mosaic laws is obsolete at the same time they say the whole bible is Truth, the holy Truth, and the only Truth inspired by God himself. But they decideds themselves what biblical words they can safely ignore.

By your words - can we disregard the old testament in its entirety, or can we chose what to discard and what to respect?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Not sure how you intended this to fit in with the OP.

Maybe it'll help if you answer the questions:

Do any Christians here believe in the above? Do any modern Christian denominations?

If any Christians here don't believe in the above, yet believe that the Bible is the "inerrant word of God", how do you reconcile this?

So I think your saying that as time has passed from when God's word the Bible was written that things such as God's view of headship of God over Jesus, Jesus over man and man over women has changed? Who changed it? Has God had another book written that cancels out the Bible and his original laws and commands?

Originally posted by galveston75
So I think your saying that as time has passed from when God's word the Bible was written that things such as God's view of headship of God over Jesus, Jesus over man and man over women has changed? Who changed it? Has God had another book written that cancels out the Bible and his original laws and commands?

Actually, I was asking you a couple of questions.

The vast majority of husbands should submit to their wives in any number of things. That's just a fact. What is clear is that Ephesians 5:22-24 was written by a man with a very discriminatory view of women.

As I said earlier:
"Contrast this with the teachings of Jesus, which by and large are as applicable now as they were then. They are timeless, i.e., eternal. As such, those who follow the teachings of Jesus have "eternal life". They are living the life of the eternal. God is eternal. Those who follow the teachings of Jesus are living the life of God. Jesus did not teach this because it is not of God, just as many of the teachings of [others in the Bible] are not of God."

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Actually, I was asking you a couple of questions.

The vast majority of husbands that should submit to their wives in any number of things. That's just a fact. What is clear is that Ephesians 5:22-24 was written by a man with a very discriminatory view of women.

As I said earlier:
"Contrast this with the teachings of Jesus, which by and large are ...[text shortened]... e it is not of God, just as many of the teachings of [others in the Bible] are not of God."

That was not his view as it is from God as is the whole Bible. You obviously don't believe that so your view must be a humans view and don't understand the spiritual rightness of that scripture. Jehovah thru his wisdom set the laws of many things in the universe in order for things to work in harmony. The relationship of humans are no different as well as in his congregations. Man as a whole has stepped outside of God's ways and we now pay the price for it globaly with many problems.

Originally posted by galveston75
That was not his view as it is from God as is the whole Bible. You obviously don't believe that so your view must be a humans view and don't understand the spiritual rightness of that scripture. Jehovah thru his wisdom set the laws of many things in the universe in order for things to work in harmony. The relationship of humans are no different as well a ...[text shortened]... has stepped outside of God's ways and we now pay the price for it globaly with many problems.

One of the problems is discrimination against women. So far as I know, Jesus never advocated it, but Ephesians 5:22-24 does.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
One of the problems is discrimination against women. So far as I know, Jesus never advocated it, but Ephesians 5:22-24 does.

If the woman is spiritually minded and see's the wisdom in scriptures such as this and view headship from God's viewpoint, then they will not view it as discrimination.
Jesus showed the utmost respect for women as any Christain man should. But if it was something that was to be changed, then Jesus would have done that during the time he was here with the households and congragations of his followers.

Originally posted by galveston75
If the woman is spiritually minded and see's the wisdom in scriptures such as this and view headship from God's viewpoint, then they will not view it as discrimination.
Jesus showed the utmost respect for women as any Christain man should. But if it was something that was to be changed, then Jesus would have done that during the time he was here with the households and congragations of his followers.

Saying that wives should submit to their husbands in everything shows a complete lack of respect of women, their capabilities and as human beings rather than servants.

You seem to be missing the point that Ephesians 5:22-24 was written by a man.

Now, you can either perpetuate his discriminatory views as you are or overcome your bigoted nature.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Saying that wives should submit to their husbands in everything shows a complete lack of respect of women, their capabilities and as human beings rather than servants.

You seem to be missing the point that Ephesians 5:22-24 was written by a man.

Now, you can either perpetuate his discriminatory views as you are or overcome your bigoted nature.

Your not listening or reasoning on what I said and for sure not on what the Bible is saying. Does it ever once say women are to be discriminated against or not shown respect. Did god not choose women to do things for him at times? Does the Bible say anything like women are to sit in some corner and keep their mouths shut? """"Show me where it ever says that.""""
But do you really not understand at all that there has to be some type of order within a familly or workplace or military in order for the system to work? Some one has to take the lead and God chose the man as he was created first and woman was from him.
The point your missing to is that God does hold the man accountable more because of his position in the family and he would certianly have to answer to God if he were to abuse that role..which is the custom in some lands. That repression is wrong in God's eyes.
A husband is to cherish his wife and respect her as the weaker vessle and assign her the duties that she excels at. If she is better then him in something then it would be wise to let her do those things and be very appreciative for it and praise her for it.
I see no abuse here sir.........

Originally posted by galveston75
Your not listening or reasoning on what I said and for sure not on what the Bible is saying. Does it ever once say women are to be discriminated against or not shown respect. Did god not choose women to do things for him at times? Does the Bible say anything like women are to sit in some corner and keep their mouths shut? """"Show me where it ever says t ...[text shortened]... d be very appreciative for it and praise her for it.
I see no abuse here sir.........

you see no abuse because you are incapable of independent thought. you are like a tv stuck on only one channel.

let's see, the husband is required to love the wife, the wife is required to love her husband and to obey his every whim. and you think it is quite right.

i have another one: the husband really loves the wife. he would never hurt her. but incidentally the husband is a moron and insists they give all their life savings together with their children's college funds to a dude that promisses them they will get triple in return. under your insane law, the wife must obey even if she has twice her husband's iq and she knows that dude is going to cheat them

how about this one: when is the woman allowed to not be submissive to her husband? we have love from the husband to the wife and obedience from wife to the husband. if the husband is being abusive, does that break the contract? and when is the wife allowed to no longer be submissive? on the second time her husband has beaten her? fifth time?


what kind of a life is that where you are told to be submissive to someone simply because that someone has a very special organ that you don't have?

yes, in the family there has to be a type of order as it has to be an order in military and at work. but that order should be based on merit. not on whether the genitalia are dangling or not. you wouldn't go to a male surgeon to perform on you while a female surgeon in the same hospital is ten times more skilled (at least i hope you wouldn't)

Originally posted by galveston75
Your not listening or reasoning on what I said and for sure not on what the Bible is saying. Does it ever once say women are to be discriminated against or not shown respect. Did god not choose women to do things for him at times? Does the Bible say anything like women are to sit in some corner and keep their mouths shut? """"Show me where it ever says t d be very appreciative for it and praise her for it.
I see no abuse here sir.........

Does it ever once say women are to be discriminated against or not shown respect...A husband is to cherish his wife and respect her as the weaker vessle and assign her the duties that she excels at.

"Respect her as the WEAKER VESSEL and assign her duties"? Viewing women as the "weaker vessel" is discriminatory in and of itself. It never ceases to amaze me how the bigoted claim they don't discriminate in one sentence and then immediately make it apparent that they do. "Assign her duties" as one would a servant?


If she is better then him in something then it would be wise to let her do those things and be very appreciative for it and praise her for it.

As one would with a servant?

Does the Bible say anything like women are to sit in some corner and keep their mouths shut? """"Show me where it ever says that.""""

1 Timothy 2
11A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.