1. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    19 Sep '09 00:15
    Doesn't someone out there know what words Jesus actually used for the words "sin" and "commit sin" in those passages about being a slave to sin in John 32 ("the truth will set you free" etc).

    http://www.theopedia.com/Greek_and_Hebrew_words_for_Sin

    What does all this mean for this passage? What kind of sin is Jesus refering to? Wilful wickedness or unintentional lapses? How do I find out?

    Can we know for sure how these passages were translated and what words Jesus may have used?
  2. Joined
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    19 Sep '09 01:04
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Doesn't someone out there know what words Jesus actually used for the words "sin" and "commit sin" in those passages about being a slave to sin in John 32 ("the truth will set you free" etc).

    http://www.theopedia.com/Greek_and_Hebrew_words_for_Sin

    What does all this mean for this passage? What kind of sin is Jesus refering to? Wilful wickedn ...[text shortened]... n we know for sure how these passages were translated and what words Jesus may have used?

    What does all this mean for this passage? What kind of sin is Jesus refering to? Wilful wickedness or unintentional lapses? How do I find out?


    Are you referring to John 8.32? The word used there is 'hamartia'. I do not know what connotations this word has biblical Greek. In Attic Greek, however, it is more closely related to the word 'hamartanein' which means not only 'to do wrong' but also 'to miss the mark' or 'to err'. 'Hamartia' then can then mean an error or failure, or in some contexts, a miss (of a target). I don't think it originally had connotations of wickedness. Perhaps you should consult a concordance and see what contexts it appears in.
  3. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    19 Sep '09 18:462 edits
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    [b]
    What does all this mean for this passage? What kind of sin is Jesus refering to? Wilful wickedness or unintentional lapses? How do I find out?


    Are you referring to John 8.32? The word used there is 'hamartia'. I do not know what connotations this word has biblical Greek. In Attic Greek, however, it is more closely related to the word 'hamartane ness. Perhaps you should consult a concordance and see what contexts it appears in.[/b]
    Thanks , and yes, it was John 8:32.

    I will have a look. In the translation from the spoken word to the Greek that the NT is written in , are there many mis translations possible?

    Interestingly , hamartia is closely linked with the concept of hubris (pride arrogance) , so this leaves me wondering if there was something in the original aramaic words of Jesus that suggested he was refering to the an arrogant form of sin or a state of mind based on pride. This certainly fits with the context of these passages because the people he was rebuking were the self assured religious leaders.

    My feeling is that Jesus was saying that these people were enslaved to their own pride and arrogance and were as such children of the enemy. I don't think his words were meant for those who humbly followed him but made mistakes and sinned along the way. Those who were humble and repentent of their sin would not be considered "slaves" to sin because their confession and penitence would free them . Would you agree with this analysis and do you think it is shared by many scholars?
  4. Standard memberKellyJay
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    19 Sep '09 19:16
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Doesn't someone out there know what words Jesus actually used for the words "sin" and "commit sin" in those passages about being a slave to sin in John 32 ("the truth will set you free" etc).

    http://www.theopedia.com/Greek_and_Hebrew_words_for_Sin

    What does all this mean for this passage? What kind of sin is Jesus refering to? Wilful wickedn ...[text shortened]... n we know for sure how these passages were translated and what words Jesus may have used?
    Personally, I'm of the opinion that unless truth touches you, you will
    not even see sin for what it is. In order to be set free from something
    you must know what binds you, and Jesus will highlight in your life
    those things that bind you and set you free of them. Some will simply
    fall off your life and become completely uninteresting to you leaving
    comletely free, others there maybe a struggle where our lusts and
    desires want to justify and hold on too those things that would bind us.
    Kelly
  5. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    19 Sep '09 20:10
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Personally, I'm of the opinion that unless truth touches you, you will
    not even see sin for what it is. In order to be set free from something
    you must know what binds you, and Jesus will highlight in your life
    those things that bind you and set you free of them. Some will simply
    fall off your life and become completely uninteresting to you leaving
    com ...[text shortened]... our lusts and
    desires want to justify and hold on too those things that would bind us.
    Kelly
    Agreed. I'm not bothered either way. Truth lives within you. But for some people it's important to understand what Jesus actually said explicitly. There are some on this forum who cannot accept something unless it's laid out clearly like a traffic sign. Anything else is just "interpretation".

    I'm trying to establish in this thread whether the only way we can ever make sense of this passage is to interpret as best we can or whether it is possible to definitively "know" for sure.
  6. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    20 Sep '09 13:23
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Personally, I'm of the opinion that unless truth touches you, you will
    not even see sin for what it is. In order to be set free from something
    you must know what binds you, and Jesus will highlight in your life
    those things that bind you and set you free of them. Some will simply
    fall off your life and become completely uninteresting to you leaving
    com ...[text shortened]... our lusts and
    desires want to justify and hold on too those things that would bind us.
    Kelly
    Sounds like you are talking from experience. Do you think you and I (and others) could be climbing the same mountain (God), and therefore we have a different view because we are on different sides of the mountain?
  7. Standard memberKellyJay
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    20 Sep '09 14:57
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Sounds like you are talking from experience. Do you think you and I (and others) could be climbing the same mountain (God), and therefore we have a different view because we are on different sides of the mountain?
    Possible, the only thing that mattters in my opinion is our foundation
    which I believe must be Jesus Christ. I do know I have disageements
    even within the body of fellowship we attend, but they are little things
    as I love the people we worship with and think those types of things
    where we are in disagreement will fall away in the end when we are
    done, so He who binds us is much greater than that which would
    separtate us.
    Kelly
  8. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    20 Sep '09 17:18
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Possible, the only thing that mattters in my opinion is our foundation
    which I believe must be Jesus Christ. I do know I have disageements
    even within the body of fellowship we attend, but they are little things
    as I love the people we worship with and think those types of things
    where we are in disagreement will fall away in the end when we are
    done, so He who binds us is much greater than that which would
    separtate us.
    Kelly
    Yes,yes. I heard it so many times its nearly lost all meaning to me. "Only through Jesus can you enter...blah,blah..."
    Look Kelly, I'm not making fun here I just keep asking the same question . Why is Jesus the only way? (You dont have to answer)
    I dont doubt Jesus is A way but clearly there are many other historical figures that hold power over many others,ie.KRSNA,Bhudda,Mohammed,etc, How can you convince me that all the others are wrong?
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    20 Sep '09 17:19
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Why is Jesus the only way?
    I can't speak for him, but it might have something to do with the fact that he was and is God in the flesh.
  10. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    20 Sep '09 17:24
    Originally posted by whodey
    I can't speak for him, but it might have something to do with the fact that he was and is God in the flesh.
    He is not the only one to claim that.
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