@moonbus
I expect to reign with Him depending on if I am those rewarded as an overcoming one.
Between the church age and the eternal age there is the one thousand year millennial kingdom. This 1000 years is a precurser to the eternal age. Eternity does not begin upon the second coming of Christ.
There is an intervening 1,000 years.
God knew that if He saved freely, some would grow, some would go on to allow Him to operate in them. And some would procastinate barely growing. As an incentive to those who COOPERATE with His grace He established the REWARD of the millennial kingdom.
However, ALL, the late, and the early, eventually are deified by the time of the end of the millennial kingdom. Think of having to go to "summer school" because you did not graduate at the appropriate time.
You see, both the late and the on time ALL eventually graduate.
His perfect will is that in the church age He grow to manifest Himself in splendor.
His permissive will is that the majority will take grace for granted and have to attend a kind of "summer school" during the millennial kingdom in which they SHOULD have been ready.
A lot of this has to do with how we are merciful towards others.
The merciful shall obtain mercy among the children of God.
None of us feel completely ready.
He who feels ready discovers how unready he is still.
So we need to supplement this feeling with mercy towards others.
Things will pan out well to the merciful imo.
@sonship saidBaloney
However, ALL, the late, and the early, eventually are deified by the time of the end of the millennial kingdom. Think of having to go to "summer school" because you did not graduate at the appropriate time.
You see, both the late and the on time ALL eventually graduate.
His perfect will is that in the church age He grow to manifest Himself in splendor.
His permis ...[text shortened]... supplement this feeling with mercy towards others.
Things will pan out well to the merciful imo.
@sonship saidDo you believe that through your own efforts to improve yourself (by going to ‘summer school’ and being merciful), you will be rewarded with deification? Is that the programme?
However, ALL, the late, and the early, eventually are deified by the time of the end of the millennial kingdom. Think of having to go to "summer school" because you did not graduate at the appropriate time.
You see, both the late and the on time ALL eventually graduate.
His perfect will is that in the church age He grow to manifest Himself in splendor.
His permis ...[text shortened]... supplement this feeling with mercy towards others.
Things will pan out well to the merciful imo.
@sonship saidHave you "grown" in the last ten years as long as I have known you? Is your God figure "operating" in you here on this website? Do you believe you will, one day, "reign" alongside your God?
God knew that if He saved freely, some would grow, some would go on to allow Him to operate in them. And some would procastinate barely growing.
@sonship saidThat's because you are a mortal chap for whom deification is not on the table.
There is no being co-equal with Christ in His Godhead.
Or do you think you've skipped over 'summer school' and will be called to 'graduate' directly into the coming age as co-king at Christ's side?
Moonbase, I don't mind being debunked. But try to debunk me on what I SAID and not on a strawman.
Did I say that I was assured and garuanteed that I personally would not be so disciplined ?
I DID NOT. Now Come on.
I said that possibility is there before all the believers.
Do you think Paul was a mature Christian?
I do.
He did not express assurance that he would be rewarded in the middle of his ministry life. Now just before his martyrtom in his epistle to Timothy Paul DID express confidence that he had finished his course and awaited a "crown of righteousness". (See 2 Timothy 4:6-8 )
But in the middle of his quite rich ministry and experience he said he did not think he had arrived. Past successes he left behind and KEPT stretching forward to GAIN Christ. I think I should be the same way.
But moreover I also count all things to be loss on account of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, on account of whom I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as refuse that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is out of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is out of God and based on faith,
To know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, If perhaps I may attain to the out-resurrection from the dead.
See his attitude? And he was way more mature than most of us believers.
Not that I have already obtained or am already perfected, but I pursue, if even I may lay hold of that for which I also have been laid hold of by Christ Jesus. Brothers, I do not account of myself to have laid hold; but one thing I do: Forgetting the things which are behind and stretching forward to the things which are before,
I pursue toward the goal for the prize to which God in Christ Jesus has called me upward. Let us therefore, as many as are full-grown, have this mind; and if in anything you are otherwise minded, this also God will reveal to you. (See Philipians 3:7-15)
@sonship saidWhy are you repeatedly calling him Moonbase when it has been pointed out to you that is not his username?
@moonbus
Or do you think you've skipped over 'summer school' and will be called to 'graduate' directly into the coming age as co-king at Christ's side?
Moonbase, I don't mind being debunked. But try to debunk me on what I SAID and not on a strawman.
Did I say that I was assured and garuanteed that I personally would not be so disciplined ? ...[text shortened]... d finished his course and awaited a "crown of righteousness". (See 2 Timothy 4:6-8 )
ἐδόξασεν verb, he does X
Cognate: doxázō
to think, suppose, be of opinion
to praise, extol, magnify, celebrate
to honour, do honour to, hold in honour
to make glorious, adorn with lustre, clothe with splendour
to impart glory to something, render it excellent
to make renowned, render illustrious
to cause the dignity and worth of some person or thing to become manifest and acknowledged
Don't see anything there which would indicate elevation to equality with the one who bestows this honor.
So, those whom he predestined, he thinks of. And thinks highly of. Don't see any deification entering there. Nope. Not a tittle or a jot of deification.
What you don't see is seen by many. And such words a theosis or divinization or deification have been expressed by some who did know Greek better than you.
The portion of Romans says the are confromed to the image of the Firstborn Son of God. "that He might become the Firstborn among many brothers".
Our ground for determining this climax as deification is that the Firstborn Son was begotten in resurrection and forever wears the deified humanity He initiated when forever after the Son of God went BACK to the throne a God-man with glorified resurrected human nature.
In doing that He is FIRST among many brothers. And He is not ashamed to call them brothers because He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are of one Father. Meaning His life is in them as their life.
"For both He who santifies andthose who are being sanctified are all of One, [begetting Father by His life] for whic cause He [Christ] is not ashamed to call them brothers, Saying,
"I will declare You name [Father] to my brothers; in the midst of the church i will sing hymns of praise to you."
And again, . . . "Behold, I and the children whom God has given to Me." (Hebrews 2:11-13)
The church comes about in resurrection of Christ. He is in the midst of the church in that in resurrection He became "a life giving Spirit" enabling man to be reborn with the life of God - THAT LIFE on this side of resurrection being the life of a new Head of a new divinized humanity. He is the second man. He is the Head of a new humanity indwelt with and destined to be swallowed up by the life of the Triune God. That Person processed through in order to mass produce from the prototype the Firstborn Son into many brothers of the Firstborn.
You may not see any basis of deification, But Athanius (ca 298–373) the so-called "father of orthodoxy" had at least as good a grasp of Greek as you. And he said -
“God became man that man might become God,”
My mentors almost always add the qualifier "that we might become God in life and nature and expression but not in the Godhead."
Now if you would like me to get you in touch with a Greek scholar who translates NT Greek and teaches Greek who does believe there is ground to speak of divinization or deification that would be Dr. Kerry S. Robichaux who you can reach at:
Affirmation & Critique
P.O. Box 2032, Anaheim, CA 92814-0032
Or email with attention to K. Robichaux at affirm@lsm.org
Here's the website www.affcrit.com
@sonship saidYou grovel before men.
@moonbus
[quote] ἐδόξασεν verb, he does X
Cognate: doxázō
to think, suppose, be of opinion
to praise, extol, magnify, celebrate
to honour, do honour to, hold in honour
to make glorious, adorn with lustre, clothe with splendour
to impart glory to something, render it excellent
to make renowned, render illustrious
to cause the dignity and worth of some person or ...[text shortened]... tion to K. Robichaux at affirm@lsm.org
Here's the website www.affcrit.com
Check this website
Listen to what this man said.
You are a follower of men
Nothing you say is from Christ
What did Jesus say?
@sonship
My mentors almost always add the qualifier "that we might become God in life and nature and expression but not in the Godhead."
That's equivalent to "that we might become quiche in life and nature and expression but not in the Quicheness."
Piffle.