@sonship saidYou are correct .. I now see it
" And those whom He predestinated,
these He also called;
and those whom He called,
these He also justrified;
and those whom He justified,'
these He also glorified." (Rom. 8:30)
Praise the Lord.
I was blind but now I see.
" And those whom He predestinated,
these He also called;
and those whom He called,
these He also justrified;
and those whom He justified,'
these He also glorified.
and those whom he glorified
He also deified"
(Witless Pee. 8:30)
The gory with which the saved are glorified is the glory into which they were called.
And that glorys is His [God's] eternal glory in Christ Jesus.
"But the God of all grace, He who has called you into His eternal glory in Christ Jesus after you have suffered a little while, will Himself perfect, establish, strengthen, and ground you. To Him be the glory and the might forever and ever. Amen." (1 Pet. 5:10,11)
And the glory which you haver given to Me I have given to them, that they may be one, even as We are one; I in them, and You im Me, that they may be PERFECTED into one . . . " (John 17:22,23a)
"Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father." (Matt. 13:43a)
"In hope that the creation itself will also be freed from the slavery of corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God." (Rom. 8:21)
"When He comes to be glorified in His saints and to be marveled at in all those who have believed . . . " (2 Thess. 1:10a)
"To Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus unto all the generations forever and ever. Amen." (Eph. 3:21)
We may call this perfected in His dispensed indwelling life to be God in life and nature and expression but not in His Godhead - deified.
@rajk999 saidHmmm, gotta get out my Greek Bible. A terminological ineptitude appears to have crept in there.
You are correct .. I now see it
Praise the Lord.
I was blind but now I see.
" And those whom He predestinated,
these He also called;
and those whom He called,
these He also justrified;
and those whom He justified,'
these He also glorified.
and those whom he glorified
He also deified"
(Witless Pee. 8:30)
ἐδόξασεν verb, he does X
Cognate: doxázō
to think, suppose, be of opinion
to praise, extol, magnify, celebrate
to honour, do honour to, hold in honour
to make glorious, adorn with lustre, clothe with splendour
to impart glory to something, render it excellent
to make renowned, render illustrious
to cause the dignity and worth of some person or thing to become manifest and acknowledged
Don't see anything there which would indicate elevation to equality with the one who bestows this honor.
So, those whom he predestined, he thinks of. And thinks highly of. Don't see any deification entering there. Nope. Not a tittle or a jot of deification.
@moonbus saidSonship cheapens deification to such an extent I keep expecting to see it on sale in the supermarket.
Hmmm, gotta get out my Greek Bible. A terminological ineptitude appears to have crept in there.
ἐδόξασεν verb, he does X
Cognate: doxázō
to think, suppose, be of opinion
to praise, extol, magnify, celebrate
to honour, do honour to, hold in honour
to make glorious, adorn with lustre, clothe with splendour
to impart glory to something, ren ...[text shortened]... nks highly of. Don't see any deification entering there. Nope. Not a tittle or a jot of deification.
@moonbus saidThank you .. the meaning of that Greek word clears it up. Surely the Apostles had no intention of inserting deification in any form into their writings.
Hmmm, gotta get out my Greek Bible. A terminological ineptitude appears to have crept in there.
ἐδόξασεν verb, he does X
Cognate: doxázō
to think, suppose, be of opinion
to praise, extol, magnify, celebrate
to honour, do honour to, hold in honour
to make glorious, adorn with lustre, clothe with splendour
to impart glory to something, ren ...[text shortened]... nks highly of. Don't see any deification entering there. Nope. Not a tittle or a jot of deification.
God has myriahds of angels and angelic beings that He has created to appear glorious. None of them as so because they have His life.
Lucifer, the Daystar was a glorious anointed covering cherub splendid apparently from the moment he awoke into created existence. He was so close to the Creator leading the worship of all the angels.
"O you who sealed up perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty, You were in Eden, the garden of God . . . You were the anointed cherub who covered the Ark; indeed I [God] set you, so that you were upon the holy mountain of God; you walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, until unrighteousness was found in you. . . . Your heart was lifted up because of your beautuy, you corrupted your wisdom by reason of your beightness, I cast you to the ground; I presented you before kings tat the may look at you." (See Ezekiel 28:12-17)
This was the glorious being who became Satan. He was glorious from the moment he was created. But he had NOTHING of the life of God within him.
The man made from the dust of the earth and redeemed and dispensed into by the life of God to be sons of God REPLACE this fallen one forever. They are made glorious not just by outward bestowment but because of being swallowed up by the life of the Triune God both from within and without.
IF God just wanted brightly glorious creations He could have just made more angels. He did not. He created man from the dust and became a Man Himself to lead many sons into the gloroious mingling of divinity with humanity.
Incidently, that is the main reason why Satan hates man so much, and especially the church to be filled unto all the fulness of God. The deified man from within replaces him, the failed rebel who sought to be like the Most High and revolt against God.
@sonship saidIn another thread, Demi-Gods, I asked you what you expect of the age to come, in particular what you hope and expect for yourself, one of the elect, in the age to come. You replied that you hope and expect to be "rewarded to reign as a co-king with Christ."
God has myriahds of angels and angelic beings that He has created to appear glorious. None of them as so because they have His life.
Lucifer, the Daystar was a glorious anointed covering cherub splendid apparently from the moment he awoke into created existence. He was so close to the Creator leading the worship of all the angels.
[b]"O you who sealed up perf ...[text shortened]... om within replaces him, the failed rebel who sought to be like the Most High and revolt against God.
On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is something fairly plausible and 10 is very implausible:
If someone told me he had been abducted by space aliens, transported to another planet in another galaxy, had his brain surgically transplanted into another body, then returned to Earth, I would rate that a 9.
If someone told me a man had risen from the dead, I would give that a 10.
The likelihood of you becoming co-king of the transformed Earth, co-equal with a man who rose from the dead, is an eleven.
The likelihood of you becoming co-king of the transformed Earth, co-equal with a man who rose from the dead, is an eleven.
You are too kind! I would rate its implausabilty at 100 or beyond. But God . . . in His salvation is able to do far above all that we could ask or think. "But God . . . " is the key.
So the implausibility in ourselves is more than we can imagine, perhaps infinte as fallen sinners. "But God . . . ".
But the story doesn't end with OUR hopeless unsuitability but with the absolutely astounding grace of Christ to fulfill His eternal purpose.
"Among whom we also all conducted ourselves once in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest;
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He lioved us, Even when we were dead in offenses, made us alive together with CHrist (by grace you have been saved) And raised us up together with Him and seated us together with Him in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus.
That He might displauy im the ages to come the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. " (Eph. 2:3-7)
This salvation and deification is a testament to the unsearchable riches of God's grace in His kindness and mercy.
When you look at me or at yourself and shake your head "No Way !" , remember " But God . . . " (Eph. 2:4a)
So here we have mocker moonbase assuring a redeemed sinner, me, "You are the least like to be so saved to be a son of God - glorified, deified, transformed and built up into the New Jesusalem."
After he has his jolly laugh lety him remember "With man it is impossible but not with God. For with God all things are possible."
And Paul "least than the least of all saints" wrote.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
32 Indeed, He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not also with Him freely give us all things?
33 Who shall bring a charge against God's chosen ones? It is God who justifies.
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ Jesus who died and, rather, who was raised, who is also at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation or anguish or persecution or famine or nakedness or peril or sword?
36 As it is written, ``For Your sake we are being put to death all day long; we have been accounted as sheep for slaughter.''
37 But in all these things we more than conquer through Him who loved us.
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life nor angels nor principalities nor things present nor things to come nor powers
39 Nor height nor depth nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:31-39)
I wrote a song to these verses:
https://soundcloud.com/jack-wilmore/i-am-persuaded-rom-838
@sonship saidEphesians 2:3-7
@moonbusThe likelihood of you becoming co-king of the transformed Earth, co-equal with a man who rose from the dead, is an eleven.
You are too kind! I would rate its implausabilty at 100 or beyond. But God . . . in His salvation is able to do far above all that we could ask or think. "But God . . . " is the key.
So the implaus ...[text shortened]... at yourself and shake your head "No Way !" , remember " But God . . . " (Eph. 2:4a)
New International Version
3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
You think that to be made "alive with Christ" means to be made co-equal with Christ? I think it means to be enlivened by a vivid sense of gratefulness that Christ was sent to save mankind.
You think being raised up with Christ and seated with him means you will be made co-equal with Christ? I think it means you may consider yourself blessed to be invited to sit near Christ and bask in God's kindness (which kindness was shown by God's having sent Christ to save mankind).
@sonship saidI do not doubt that an omnipotent Being would have the power to do what you say; that is not what I mock. What I mock is your presumption in claiming that this is going to happen to you, based on twisted interpretations of the Bible. You are reading stuff into it which just isn't there.
So here we have mocker moonbase assuring a redeemed sinner, me, "You are the least like to be so saved to be a son of God - glorified, deified, transformed and built up into the New Jesusalem."
After he has his jolly laugh lety him remember "With man it is impossible but not with God. For with God all things are possible."
And Paul "least than the least of ...[text shortened]...
I wrote a song to these verses:
https://soundcloud.com/jack-wilmore/i-am-persuaded-rom-838
You think that to be made "alive with Christ" means to be made co-equal with Christ? I think it means to be enlivened by a vivid sense of gratefulness that Christ was sent to save mankind.
We do not believe regeneration is the CONCLUSION of God's salvation but the BEGINNING. And the conclusion does not cause man to be co-equal with Christ in His Godhead.
You think being raised up with Christ and seated with him means you will be made co-equal with Christ? I think it means you may consider yourself blessed to be invited to sit near Christ and bask in God's kindness (which kindness was shown by God's having sent Christ to save mankind).
There is no being co-equal with Christ in His Godhead.
But the consummate city that God is building New Jerusalem has the glory of God. And concerning the constituents it says that they are God's sons and will reign forever and ever.
"Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before HIm in love, Predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will." (Eph. 1:4,5)
"Father, concerning that which You have given Me, I desire that they alsomaybewith Me where I am, that they may behold My glory, which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." (John 17:24)
"He who overcomes, to him I will give to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat with My Father on His throne." (Rev.3:21)
"But to Him who is able to guard you from stumbling and to set you before His glory without blemish in exultation . . . " (Jude 24)
"And night will be no more; and they have no need of the light of a lamp and of the light of the sun, for the Lord God will shine upon them; and they will reign forever and ever. " (Rev. 22:5) [/b]
"He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be God to him, and he will ne a son to Me." (Rev. 21:7)
I do not doubt that an omnipotent Being would have the power to do what you say; that is not what I mock. What I mock is your presumption in claiming that this is going to happen to you, based on twisted interpretations of the Bible. You are reading stuff into it which just isn't there.
It is a predestinated destination that God has ordained for all the saved from before the foundation of the world.
We can postpone it and delay it. We can offer God a little trouble.
But we cannot stop it.
The biblical "time travel" of the Apostle John caused him to see the saved already in the city New Jerusalem.
Its the bequest of the will of the Testator of the new covenant - Jesus Christ. He is the Great High Priest who lives always to intercede for us and is able to save us to the uttermost. He is the Executor of the new covenant. If God does not bring all the saved into this destination then He is unrighteous and unfaithful.
It is as secure as the total redemption and forgiveness of our sins.
He is able to save us to the uttermost because He always lives to intercede for us.
He is the interceding Priest with the power of an indestructible life.
Amen. From the guttermost to the uttermost.
@sonship saidSo how does that fit with your claim in the Demi-Gods thread, that you expect to be co-king with Christ in the coming age? Whether at the beginning or the conclusion.
@moonbus
You think that to be made "alive with Christ" means to be made co-equal with Christ? I think it means to be enlivened by a vivid sense of gratefulness that Christ was sent to save mankind.
We do not believe regeneration is the CONCLUSION of God's salvation but the BEGINNING. And the conclusion does not cause man to be co-equal with Christ in His Godhead.