Originally posted by pritybettaI suspect we may be using terminology in different ways. So let me rephrase:
The answer is that Christ is the one who overcomes sin. We do not do that, what we do is a result of what Christ has done. Sin is already overcome by Christ.
Do you believe that one can "be saved"/"have eternal life"/"enter heaven/ etc." and continue to sin?
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneNo. But overcoming sin is not 'not continuing in sin'. I posted a reply to you on the thread "Think of one...Poll" conserning this.
I suspect we may be using terminology in different ways. So let me rephrase:
Do you believe that one can "be saved"/"have eternal life"/"enter heaven/ etc." and continue to sin?
Originally posted by Rajk999It is so hard for them because they don't desire to do the works. In order to desire to do the works you have to have the spirit in you, therefore the works are a result of what the spirit has done. Many could do the same works but not be saved. That is because they do them in vain thinking that that is what saves you. That is why Jesus expains that there will be many who say Lord, Lord and he will say I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Is English your native language? How can you read the words of Jesus and not see how totally essential good works are is utterly amazing to me.
Read the question (below) asked of Jesus .. the guy is asking what he has to DO to get eternal life.
The answer Jesus gives is all about GOOD WORKS. Meaning that if the guy did not do good works there is no sa ...[text shortened]... for a camel to go through a needle`s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Originally posted by pritybettaOkay, so it seems it was as I suspected. You believe that it is Jesus who "overcomes sin" for us, but that one who continues to sin cannot "be saved"/"have eternal life"/"enter heaven"/ etc.
No. But overcoming sin is not 'not continuing in sin'. I posted a reply to you on the thread "Think of one...Poll" conserning this.
Let me know if I didn't understand you correctly.
Originally posted by pritybettaWell now I know for sure that you are a crazy woman.
It is so hard for them because they don't desire to do the works. In order to desire to do the works you have to have the spirit in you, therefore the works are a result of what the spirit has done. Many could do the same works but not be saved. That is because they do them in vain thinking that that is what saves you. That is why Jesus expains that there ...[text shortened]... ny who say Lord, Lord and he will say I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Here is the passage you are referring to. Read it over. Its all about who is DOING THE WILL OF GOD.
Talkers and prophesiers, and those who cast out devils get nothing. You have to DO.
Matt 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
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24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand.
Originally posted by Rajk999We are only able to "hear" when our ears are spiritually opened and we can not open our ears, Christ does that. You have to understand that when you become saved that is when you are able to do the sayings of Christ. Those who hear with the flesh are those who will not do his sayings. So you see, in order to truly do anything that is commanded we have to be saved. When we do them it is the fruit of the spirit, the result of being quickened to spiritual life. Without being quickened we can not do anything.
Well now I know for sure that you are a crazy woman.
Here is the passage you are referring to. Read it over. Its all about who is DOING THE WILL OF GOD.
Talkers and prophesiers, and those who cast out devils get nothing. You have to DO.
Matt 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doe ...[text shortened]... e, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand.
How is one able to do the will of God?
The Bible says that natural man does not know the will of God.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
So if we are do not know then we are unable to do so. How are we made able?
Originally posted by pritybettaStrange thing that Christ would go around telling everyone to do good works. I guess He did not realise the poor people did not have a clue what good works and love thy neighbour was about.
How is one able to do the will of God?
The Bible says that natural man does not know the will of God.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
So if we are do not know then we are unable to do so. How are we made able?
Matthew 23:1-5
(1) Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
(2) Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
(3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
(4) For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
(5) But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
James 2:24
(24) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Romans 2:13
(13) (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
James 2:10
(10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Matthew 5:18-20
(18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
(19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
(20) For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus taught that they(Israel) needed to do works as part of their salvation. But their works wasn't what actually saved them. It was Jesus sacrifice that did the saving. They clearly needed to do these works by faith. They would have to never commit any sin to not need forgiveness.
No man could be perfect that is why God had mercy on them. Those sacrifices were a symbol of what was to come.
Hebrews 10:1-4
(1) For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
(2) For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
(3) But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
(4) For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
This is when they were to be fogriven."the times of restitution"
Hebrews 10:16-18
(16) This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
(17) And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
(18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Acts 3:18-21
(18) But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
(19) Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
(20) And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
(21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Jeremiah 31:33-34
(33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Luke 11:28
(28) But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Does this help any?
Originally posted by Rajk999Hmm, strange you can not answer my question. Do you not understand it?
Strange thing that Christ would go around telling everyone to do good works. I guess He did not realise the poor people did not have a clue what good works and love thy neighbour was about.
He tells us to do good works and love thy neighbour because that is what is comanded of us to do. Not for salvation, but rather to show that we have salvation. The good works are a result of salvation not the cause.
The natural man can not do the good works without wanting somethign in return, therefore making the good works in vain. A saved man does them because they desire to, not for anything but rather bacause of something.
Originally posted by SmoothCowboy"Jesus taught that they(Israel) needed to do works as part of their salvation. But their works wasn't what actually saved them. It was Jesus sacrifice that did the saving. They clearly needed to do these works by faith. They would have to never commit any sin to not need forgiveness.
Matthew 23:1-5
(1) Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
(2) Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
(3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
(4) For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men' Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Does this help any?
No man could be perfect that is why God had mercy on them. Those sacrifices were a symbol of what was to come."
I agree with you except of the part of this quote that is in bold. The good works are the result of their salvation, not part of it. The mercy the Lord has on them is the ONLY thing that saves. If the good works is part of their salvation then salvation would not be of the Lord only, it would require works. However, the Bible is clear that salvation is not of works lest any should boast.
Originally posted by SmoothCowboyMy view of it is that Jesus's sacrifice gives everyone a chance at salvation. Its up to us to accept that free gift by doing several things :
....Jesus taught that they(Israel) needed to do works as part of their salvation. But their works wasn't what actually saved them. It was Jesus sacrifice that did the saving. .....Does this help any?
1. Having faith and believing in the gospel or the good news that Christ will one day return.
2. Baptism.
3. Doing good works.
According to Christ (enough scripture has already been quoted) :
#3 Works is not simply an option as some think. Its a requirement.
# 1 & 2 will not get you saved or give you salvation on judgement day.
Faith without works is meaningless. All three are required.
Originally posted by pritybettaHere is one man that failed to do good works. If you can talk to him my guess is that he will strongly disagree with you ... 😀
...He tells us to do good works and love thy neighbour because that is what is comanded of us to do. Not for salvation, ......
Luke 16 : 19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Originally posted by pritybettaWhere do you get these totally nonsensical statements from ? What about the Good Samaritan ? Was he saved ? Did he want something in return ? Christ said to GO AND DO WHAT THE GOOD SAMARITAN DID .... READ IT.
.....The natural man can not do the good works without wanting somethign in return, ...
THE QUESTION WAS : HOW DO I GET ETERNAL LIFE ?
THE ANSWER WAS : DO LIKE THE GOOD SAMARITAN.
Luke 10 25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, He that showed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.