Can objective moral values exist without God?

Originally posted by pcaspian
Originally posted by royalchicken
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This post, Darfius, is a non sequitur, except inasmuch as it helps clarify what non sequiturs are.

Man, you're gonna be one lonely grown-up one day. Take that any way you like to 🙂

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Lonely, yes. Lonely enough to have an unhealthy obsession with a bald cleric from Kentucky, no.

Originally posted by royalchicken
Lonely, yes. Lonely enough to have an unhealthy obsession with a bald cleric from Kentucky, no.

Uh....I'm not sure how to take that.

Originally posted by kirksey957
Uh....I'm not sure how to take that.

In a strictly complimentary way, seriously. Actually, it's pretty ironic that you're the object of the Prince's queenishness.

Originally posted by royalchicken
In a strictly complimentary way, seriously. Actually, it's pretty ironic that you're the object of the Prince's queenishness.

What's a bald-headed black minister to do?

Originally posted by kirksey957
What's a bald-headed black minister to do?

I don't know. But you'd best hope the Prince gets himself some racist tendencies, or change you address, or you'll be representin' up in tha Sodomites' thread with some personal experience, ya dig?

Originally posted by royalchicken
I don't know. But you'd best hope the Prince gets himself some racist tendencies, or change you address, or you'll be representin' up in tha Sodomites' thread with some personal experience, ya dig?

I'm still tryin to find out from DoctorScribbles if it hurts. He is strangley avoidant.

Originally posted by royalchicken
I don't know. But you'd best hope the Prince gets himself some racist tendencies, or change you address, or you'll be representin' up in tha Sodomites' thread with some personal experience, ya dig?

Yo, wit Brotha Kirksey bein' a Reverend and all, I believe tha good Lord has an interest in protectin' his assets, know what I'm sayin'?

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Yo, wit Brotha Kirksey bein' a Reverend and all, I believe tha good Lord has an interest in protectin' his assests, know what I'm sayin'?

Well, you know when you end up on the cover of Time magazine and you're hailed as the next Billy Graham, the only way to go is down.

I don't think Hitler deserves eternal damnation. Consider placing some finite measure of badness on Hitler's crimes. This is not so far fetched. We do something very similar when we compare the relative badness of Hitler's offenses to those of the average person. We assign them all some measure (perhaps not formally) of "badness."

Against this measure we apply a measure of punishment. The measure is generally thought of as positively related to the measure of "badness" so that the more "bad" one has been the more "punished" they should be.

I postulate that no one can do infinite "badness." This is because a person's life is finite and so the amount of "badness" that can feasibly be done is bounded from above. If the person had lived a day longer, they could have done more bad deeds and so the amount that they actually did is bounded from above and thus not infinite.

Now if we consider the ratio of "badness" to "punishment," we find that in the limit as "punishment" goes to infinity (eternal damnation) the relation of "badness" to "punishment" goes to zero. This is the case with the "badness" of every human because every human's "badness" is finite. So from the eternal perspective, the difference in "badness" between Hitler and any other person is basically zero when one compares this to the length of punishment.

Summary, no human can commit enough "badness" to deserve eternal punishment.

Originally posted by telerion
Summary, no human can commit enough "badness" to deserve eternal punishment.

I agree, although innumerable kalpas (immense stretches of time) in a hell realm may make it seem like an eternity.

Are you all aware of what Hell is?

Hell is a place that is eternal and complete seperation from God. It is highly doubtful that it is literal fire...but that was the best imagery to describe the torture. The torture is being away from God who is all goodness and joy.

The point is...if you deny God all of your life, wouldn't you want Him to respect your wish after you die and seperate you from Him? What will change after you die?

Originally posted by Darfius
Are you all aware of what Hell is?

Hell is a place that is eternal and complete seperation from God. It is highly doubtful that it is literal fire...but that was the best imagery to describe the torture. The torture is being away from God who is all goodness and joy.

The point is...if you deny God all of your life, wouldn't you want Him to respect your wish after you die and seperate you from Him? What will change after you die?

I experience goodness and joy now without any help from god. If I died, found out there was a god, and that hell was a complete and eternal separation from him, what would have changed?

Originally posted by rwingett
I experience goodness and joy now without any help from god. If I died, found out there was a god, and that hell was a complete and eternal separation from him, what would have changed?

You are wrong, dear rwing. God IS in the world, in the form of the Holy Spirit in those who believe in Him. And that same Holy Spirit whispers to your heart everyday, waiting for you to listen.

Originally posted by Darfius
Are you all aware of what Hell is?

Het is highly doubtful that it is literal fire...but that was the best imagery to describe the torture.ll is a place that is eternal and complete seperation from God. I The torture is being away from God who is all goodness and joy.

The point is...if you deny God all of your life, wouldn't you want Him to respect your wish after you die and seperate you from Him? What will change after you die?

Let's look at Darfius' post.

Are you all aware of what Hell is?

Yes, I have a gist from what the Bible says, but the apart from God stuff with no flames is just a nice preacher's story.
I don't see why flames are "highly doubtful." There is no reason behind this speculation. It's just parroting.

Of course we can rule out the "seperation from god" idea because it conflicts with omnipresence. If God is not there, then God exists in a space that his larger than He is. Where did this space come from?

The point is...if you deny God all of your life, wouldn't you want Him to respect your wish after you die and seperate you from Him? What will change after you die?

A great piece of crap from Strobel's book, A Case for Faith. I believe it was either Kreeft or William Lane Craig who said this. What nonsense. The obvious answer is "No." Of course, if I die and find out that Darfius' sadistic god is real, I will want to avoid this Hell. If heaven is all its cracked up to be, it must be at least a little better than Hell. I don't reject this god because I hate it. I reject it because it isn't real. If this god is real maybe I can learn to like him. Sheesh.

If anyone is interested there are a whole lot more silly delusional thinking and straw man tipping in the book. Just don't make the mistake I did and purchase it with your own money.

Originally posted by kirksey957
What's a bald-headed black minister to do?

Except your a white and only claim to be a minister 😵