@pb1022 said
Christians are not righteous because of anything they did; they’re righteous because of what Jesus Christ did.

I know this is the ideology but it's not really much in the way of a moral argument. It's just a circular argument. People asserting that they won't be going to "Hell" because their "sins" past, present, future have already been forgiven is people distancing themselves from righteousness.

@pb1022 said
The threat of hell is removed for Christians once they accept and believe in Jesus Christ and believe in His Resurrection.

Christianity without Hell doesn't work. Do you agree?

@fmf said
I know this is the ideology but it's not really much in the way of a moral argument. It's just a circular argument. People asserting that they won't be going to "Hell" because their "sins" past, present, future have already been forgiven is people distancing themselves from righteousness.

I don’t think so.

I think once Christians learn their true identity in Jesus Christ, they’ll walk out what they really are.

I don’t think the threat of hell is a deterrent to sin. I think the law keeps people feeling condemned and trapped in sin.

@fmf said
Christianity without Hell doesn't work. Do you agree?

No I don’t.

@pb1022 said
I think once Christians learn their true identity in Jesus Christ, they’ll walk out what they really are.

The whole notion of people declaring themselves irrevocably "saved" ~ regardless of how much they "sin" ~ because of beliefs they hold about themselves and about someone who lived and died 2,000 years ago ~ cannot be described as "righteousness".

@fmf said
But... people believing that they won't be/can't be going to "Hell" because their "sins" past, present, future have already been forgiven ~ because of something they believe to have happened 2,000 years ago ~ that isn't "righteousness" at all, surely? I mean, what kind of "righteousness" is that?

It isn't a get out of jail free card; it is a way back into the Kingdom of God because of what God did. A benefit is that there is eternal life attached to it, but being forgiven, experiencing the love of God, knowing He has our back is up there. If all it was were a get out of jail/hell card, that would be very selfish for that alone.

@fmf said
The whole notion of people declaring themselves irrevocably "saved" ~ regardless of how much they "sin" ~ because of beliefs they hold about themselves and about someone who lived and died 2,000 years ago ~ cannot be described as "righteousness".

Jesus Christ certainly never once described that as righteousness either, so these people have a twisted version of what Paul preached and call it righteousness. Paul described what righteousness is but church Chritians rather not include that in their teachings. Righteousness is the avoidance of sin, and what you MUST DO to be counted worthy of eternal life

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21 KJV)

Those who commit sins, including born again Chrsitian Saints who have the Holy Spirit, will not inherit the Kingdom of God. The Holy Spirit does not stop people from sin. Its a plain and simple point made clear by Paul many many times.

@fmf said
The whole notion of people declaring themselves irrevocably "saved" ~ regardless of how much they "sin" ~ because of beliefs they hold about themselves and about someone who lived and died 2,000 years ago ~ cannot be described as "righteousness".

You, like rajk999, seem to either not know or not believe in the power of God’s Holy Spirit which indwells a believer who has saving faith.

@rajk999 said
Jesus Christ certainly never once described that as righteousness either, so these people have a twisted version of what Paul preached and call it righteousness. Paul described what righteousness is but church Chritians rather not include that in their teachings. Righteousness is the avoidance of sin, and what you MUST DO to be counted worthy of eternal life

Now th ...[text shortened]... :19-21 KJV)

Those who commit sins will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Its plain and simple

Jesus Christ’s blood was shed for the remission of sins.

“For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”

(Matthew 26:28)

@kellyjay said
It isn't a get out of jail free card; it is a way back into the Kingdom of God because of what God did. A benefit is that there is eternal life attached to it, but being forgiven, experiencing the love of God, knowing He has our back is up there. If all it was were a get out of jail/hell card, that would be very selfish for that alone.

So, Christianity wouldn't work for you if there was no "Hell" because your belief in Jesus and in "salvation" is not "a get out of jail free card"? Is that what you mean?

@rajk999 said
Jesus Christ certainly never once described that as righteousness either, so these people have a twisted version of what Paul preached and call it righteousness. Paul described what righteousness is but church Chritians rather not include that in their teachings. Righteousness is the avoidance of sin, and what you MUST DO to be counted worthy of eternal life

[i]Now th ...[text shortened]... it does not stop people from sin. Its a plain and simple point made clear by Paul many many times.

<<The Holy Spirit does not stop people from sin. Its a plain and simple point made clear by Paul many many times.>>

Sure, Paul talks about the struggle between the Spirit and the flesh in Galatians.

But there’s quite a difference between occasionally sinning and repenting afterward and living a lifestyle of sin with no repentance.

@pb1022 said
You, like rajk999, seem to either not know or not believe in the power of God’s Holy Spirit which indwells a believer who has saving faith.

You have repeatedly claimed that "the power of God’s Holy Spirit which indwells" you influences your posting here. What evidence is there - here in public - that this is true?

@fmf said
I know this is the ideology but it's not really much in the way of a moral argument. It's just a circular argument. People asserting that they won't be going to "Hell" because their "sins" past, present, future have already been forgiven is people distancing themselves from righteousness.

[1] Eat as much as you want.

[2] Get rid of your mirrors and scales.

[3] Associate with people who don't discuss your weight.

The Very User-Friendly Diet™ is bound to sell by the truckload.

@fmf said
You have repeatedly claimed that "the power of God’s Holy Spirit which indwells" you influences your posting here. What evidence is there - here in public - that this is true?

<<@fmf said
You have repeatedly claimed that "the power of God’s Holy Spirit which indwells" you influences your posting here.>>

I’ve made no such claim, let alone repeatedly. Believe it or not, this website is not the only place I spend my time and posting here is not the only thing I do with my time.

<<What evidence is there - here in public - that this is true?>€

We’ve been over this before.

I’m not sharing personal info with you or any of your pals after witnessing how it’s used for malicious trolling.

@fmf said

[1] Eat as much as you want.

[2] Get rid of your mirrors and scales.

[3] Associate with people who don't discuss your weight.

The Very User-Friendly Diet™ is bound to sell by the truckload.

Once again completely ignoring the power of God’s indwelt Holy Spirit and the impact of a Christian knowing his true identity in Jesus Christ.