cartwheels

I heard this story coming out of a local church (the person who related it was trustworthy). A young guy was walking by a bus station when a strange idea entered his head . He felt that God was somehow telling him to go into the bus station and do a few cartwheels in front of people. In a kind of step out in faith he went and did this with varying degrees of success. When he had finished an older woman sitting close to him started weeping. It turned out that the woman had been feeling suicidal and was very desparate. She had prayed to God " if you are real give me a sign of some sort. I bet you can't make someone come into this station now and do a cartwheel"

Synchronicity? Answered prayer? Nonesense?

Funny thing is , I've heard a few stories like this over the years and other more subtle "co-incidences" . I know this is not proof of anything but anecdotally it is still evidence of sorts.

Originally posted by knightmeister
I heard this story coming out of a local church (the person who related it was trustworthy). A young guy was walking by a bus station when a strange idea entered his head . He felt that God was somehow telling him to go into the bus station and do a few cartwheels in front of people. In a kind of step out in faith he went and did this with varying d ...[text shortened]... ces" . I know this is not proof of anything but anecdotally it is still evidence of sorts.

Sweet story but c'mon...what sane person would go and start doing cartwheels in a busy bus station because the voice in their head tells them to. I'd be checking in to the nearest psychiatric hospital.

Originally posted by knightmeister
I heard this story coming out of a local church (the person who related it was trustworthy). A young guy was walking by a bus station when a strange idea entered his head . He felt that God was somehow telling him to go into the bus station and do a few cartwheels in front of people. In a kind of step out in faith he went and did this with varying d ces" . I know this is not proof of anything but anecdotally it is still evidence of sorts.

If amazing coincidences never occured, I would regard that as reasonable evidence for intelligent design; some superhuman agent would have to planning the deliberate suspension of the laws of chance.

Originally posted by knightmeister
Funny thing is , I've heard a few stories like this over the years and other more subtle "co-incidences" . I know this is not proof of anything but anecdotally it is still evidence of sorts.

Everyone has heard stories like that. The problem is that even members of other religions have stories like that, so to take it as evidence for your religion would be a bit suspect.
There are two important issues to consider with that particular story:
1. Is that what really happened exactly as told.
2. Is it significantly out of the range of normal coincidence to be significant.
I would hazard a guess that it didn't happen and that it is within the range of normal coincidence.
For it to be convincing evidence you would have to do something along the same lines but as a scientific experiment. For example send out a few other people to do cartwheels without God instructing them first and see what the incidence is of people commenting on it or apparently being helped by it. But then God does like to make sure that he can never be traced ...

What I find interesting is that you say this person is trustworthy but also goes around bus stations doing cartwheels. You also don't know how trustworthy the woman was.

Originally posted by knightmeister
I heard this story coming out of a local church (the person who related it was trustworthy). A young guy was walking by a bus station when a strange idea entered his head . He felt that God was somehow telling him to go into the bus station and do a few cartwheels in front of people. In a kind of step out in faith he went and did this with varying d ...[text shortened]... ces" . I know this is not proof of anything but anecdotally it is still evidence of sorts.

Let's see him walk around naked for 3 years like the prophet Isaiah. That takes balls! [pardon the pun]

Originally posted by twhitehead
Everyone has heard stories like that. The problem is that even members of other religions have stories like that, so to take it as evidence for your religion would be a bit suspect.
There are two important issues to consider with that particular story:
1. Is that what really happened exactly as told.
2. Is it significantly out of the range of normal co ...[text shortened]... goes around bus stations doing cartwheels. You also don't know how trustworthy the woman was.

All of this is true as you say , and yet an alternative explanation is that God was at work helping someone who was desperate. I think in the story the person does go on to become a Christian. The point of rasing the story is that there is evidence (not conclusive but evidence nonetheless) of God being active in our world involving himself in men's affairs. We are free to choose to make our own interpretations on the evidence. I also have no doubt that God is active and plays a role in involving himself in the affairs of other religions. God has a plan for everyone's life whether they like it or not , Muslim , Atheist , Christian...do you think God isn't interested in someones life just because they are not a Christian??

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
If amazing coincidences never occured, I would regard that as reasonable evidence for intelligent design; some superhuman agent would have to planning the deliberate suspension of the laws of chance.

Funny thing is the more you know about God the more "coincidences" seem to happen. Gary Player said once when asked how he always got so lucky out of bunkers - his reply-- "The harder I practice , you know it's funny , the luckier I get! "

Originally posted by Aimi
Sweet story but c'mon...what sane person would go and start doing cartwheels in a busy bus station because the voice in their head tells them to. I'd be checking in to the nearest psychiatric hospital.

Look around you mate , there's plenty more insanity than that everyday. Binge drinking , speeding drivers , chronic obesity, sex without protection....and you want to lock up an innocent cartwheeler?

Do you not see the beauty and love in the story?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Everyone has heard stories like that. The problem is that even members of other religions have stories like that, so to take it as evidence for your religion would be a bit suspect.
There are two important issues to consider with that particular story:
1. Is that what really happened exactly as told.
2. Is it significantly out of the range of normal co goes around bus stations doing cartwheels. You also don't know how trustworthy the woman was.

THE most interesting thing about your response is how you seem to have missed the whole purpose of the "co-incidence". When things like this (some are less spectacular) do happen there 's always a purpose to them where God is concerned. Someone gets helped or the cause of justice and goodness is furthered. It 's one of the reasons why God may well not show up in scientific experiment , it not how he works.

Originally posted by knightmeister
All of this is true as you say , and yet an alternative explanation is that God was at work helping someone who was desperate. I think in the story the person does go on to become a Christian.

It seems like a plausible explanation because it at face value it appears to make sense. But if you think about if for a moment it starts to get complicated. If Gods goal was to help the woman then why didn't he simply talk directly to her? Why go through the cartwheel shenanigans? Why does he only do it for some people and not others? (there are a lot of suicides you know).
There are just so many unanswerable questions that in the end you have to admit that your belief that you got the original answer correct is just plain conceited.

Originally posted by knightmeister
THE most interesting thing about your response is how you seem to have missed the whole purpose of the "co-incidence". When things like this (some are less spectacular) do happen there 's always a purpose to them where God is concerned. Someone gets helped or the cause of justice and goodness is furthered. It 's one of the reasons why God may well not show up in scientific experiment , it not how he works.

So when I glance at the speedometer in my car and it reads 123456 then there was a purpose? Or did God miss out on that one? And when the result is bad? Is that the Devils work?
What you missed is that:
1. The story is almost certainly false.
2. Such coincidences do happen and there is no identifiable pattern (such as people always benefiting.)
3. It makes God look pretty stupid if thats the best he can come up with.

Originally posted by twhitehead
It seems like a plausible explanation because it at face value it appears to make sense. But if you think about if for a moment it starts to get complicated. If Gods goal was to help the woman then why didn't he simply talk directly to her? Why go through the cartwheel shenanigans? Why does he only do it for some people and not others? (there are a lot of ...[text shortened]... ave to admit that your belief that you got the original answer correct is just plain conceited.

Q-If Gods goal was to help the woman then why didn't he simply talk directly to her?

A--Maybe she was not able to hear him in the sense that when people are in spiritual darkness or depression it can be hard enough for them to connect with their own thoughts and feelings let alone hear God. She was probably quite disturbed and it might have been unconstructive for her to hear and internal voice from God or something. The cartwheel thing seems more simple and convincing. BUT the simplest answer is that that was what she asked for (LOL)

Q- Why go through the cartwheel shenanigans?

A- That was what she prayed for in the end. We are all individuals , and that cartwheel obviously meant something to her. It was also an unlikely event , so it would have been quite hard for her to dismiss and probably just what she needed at that time (as the weeping and later conversion evidenced). People that disturbed and depressed often are very detached from their sense of humour and get very intense and serious , so something like a cartwheel could have been very appropriate. Humour can be very powerful.

Q- Why does he only do it for some people and not others? (there are a lot of suicides you know).

A- God is most definitely itching to help anyone in that situation but Hmmm ...let's think...could it be something to do the person asking or reaching out for God (whilst some don't) ...the woman freely chose to reach out for God . God (being true to his word- seek and you shall find) responded.


Now I want you to think about how although my answers may not be agreeable to you they are at least plausible . Also notice how hearing about an event like this seems to have brought out an ultra cynical streak in you all of a sudden as if you need to squash , ridicule and dismiis this event as soon as you can. You even missed the very answer to some of your own questions!! (ie God produced a cartwheel because the woman prayed for one)

Originally posted by twhitehead
So when I glance at the speedometer in my car and it reads 123456 then there was a purpose? Or did God miss out on that one? And when the result is bad? Is that the Devils work?
What you missed is that:
1. The story is almost certainly false.
2. Such coincidences do happen and there is no identifiable pattern (such as people always benefiting.)
3. It makes God look pretty stupid if thats the best he can come up with.

1. The story is almost certainly false. WHITEY

Why do you say that? Isn't this a bit contradictory to 2.


2. Such coincidences do happen and there is no identifiable pattern (such as people always benefiting.)

When did you start your research on this? Are you talking about co-incidences only or do you include answered prayer?


3. It makes God look pretty stupid if thats the best he can come up with.

You really don't see the beauty of what happened here in this story do you? God's quite happy to look foolish for the sake of love and helping others. For example , to Islam the idea of God on a cross is madness and stupidity. Oh , the stupidity of his love for us!!! ( "God's wisdom is as foolishness to the world" ) . Do you really think God is bothered about himself looking stupid (as if he has his ego to worry about) . He watches you wipe your rear end , cut yourself shaving , break wind and trip over paving slabs on a daily basis!!!
🙄

Originally posted by knightmeister
Do you not see the beauty and love in the story?

Hmm. What do you make of the woman violating the command not to put God to the test?

Jesus doesn't have much use for people who can't bring themselves to believe without signs. See, for example, Matthew 16:4, or Mark 8:11-12.

I think that God's wimping out in this story.

Um, let's test this. I'm going to imitate another RHPer and demand that God, if he exists and wants to save my soul from eternal damnation, clearly reveal his existence in this thread. Give me a sign, God! Otherwise I will surely burn!

Let's see what happens, shall we?