Originally posted by knightmeisterEvidence of what?
I heard this story coming out of a local church (the person who related it was trustworthy). A young guy was walking by a bus station when a strange idea entered his head . He felt that God was somehow telling him to go into the bus station and do a few cartwheels in front of people. In a kind of step out in faith he went and did this with varying d ...[text shortened]... ces" . I know this is not proof of anything but anecdotally it is still evidence of sorts.
Originally posted by smartrrrrsOne person helped another in a specific way by having faith in God. He was not afraid to look stupid and in the end may well have saved someone from suicide and all you can do is knock it. If we all did a little bit to make our world better then things would change. We can only chnage the world in small steps and this man took a small step to make the world a slightly better place.
countless millions dyin of starvation,gun crime goin through the roof rape persecution murder,wall to wall peedos pervs etc wars plagues floods ,global warming earth extinction , and these guys are chuffin doin cartwheels in some bus station,come on
Originally posted by knightmeisterBut considering the evidence available it is highly unlikely that it happened as told. So it is little more than a 'feel good' story. No why don't you make the world a better place and stop spreading rumors?
One person helped another in a specific way by having faith in God. He was not afraid to look stupid and in the end may well have saved someone from suicide and all you can do is knock it. If we all did a little bit to make our world better then things would change. We can only chnage the world in small steps and this man took a small step to make the world a slightly better place.
Originally posted by twhiteheadBut considering the evidence available it is highly unlikely that it happened as told. WHITEY
But considering the evidence available it is highly unlikely that it happened as told. So it is little more than a 'feel good' story. No why don't you make the world a better place and stop spreading rumors?
According to your world view I would expect you to believe that it is highly unlikely. And indeed it is unlikely , that's what makes the story exceptional. Saying it's unlikely is just a truism really. I'm surprised you are able to make a judgement on such a small amount of evidence thousands of miles away.
Originally posted by knightmeisterYou do not understand why I am saying it is unlikely. I say it is unlikely because stories of that nature are almost invariably inaccurate, not because of the unlikelihood of the actual events described in the story.
According to your world view I would expect you to believe that it is highly unlikely. And indeed it is unlikely , that's what makes the story exceptional. Saying it's unlikely is just a truism really. I'm surprised you are able to make a judgement on such a small amount of evidence thousands of miles away.
The story involves the statement of a clearly emotional witness which has then been passed on to another emotional witness etc and involves totally unverifiable facts (such as what the lady was thinking at a given time). At the same time we really have no idea how reliable a witness the lady in question is.
And the "small amount of evidence thousands of miles away" only serves to make the judgment a better one. You too have only a "small amount of evidence" and can really only take the story to be true "on faith" has you have precious little evidence to back up any of the key facts.
Originally posted by twhiteheadYou too have only a "small amount of evidence" and can really only take the story to be true "on faith" has you have precious little evidence to back up any of the key facts. WHITEY
You do not understand why I am saying it is unlikely. I say it is unlikely because stories of that nature are almost invariably inaccurate, not because of the unlikelihood of the actual events described in the story.
The story involves the statement of a clearly emotional witness which has then been passed on to another emotional witness etc and involve ...[text shortened]... be true "on faith" has you have precious little evidence to back up any of the key facts.
...you are right I don't . I accept the story on faith , and it is your contention (without any proof I might add) that the story is false. Therefore you believe something that you have little evidence for and cannot prove , just like me. Except I am honest enough to call it a position of belief based on my world view.
Originally posted by knightmeisterI never said the story was false, I said that it is highly likely that it is false.
...you are right I don't . I accept the story on faith , and it is your contention (without any proof I might add) that the story is false. Therefore you believe something that you have little evidence for and cannot prove , just like me. Except I am honest enough to call it a position of belief based on my world view.
Now suppose I told a very similar story regarding a suspected bank robber who claimed that he just found the bag of money. Would you believe him? Why do you believe one unlikely story but not another? Your world view should not mandate that you believe your story. It may cause you to disregard the unlikelihood of the events described taking place but it should not cause you to disregard the unlikelihood of the events being reported accurately. In fact, I know many Christians who would consider the story to be most likely untrue simply based on the fact that stories are rarely reported accurately.
Originally posted by twhiteheadI have no doubt that the story itself was not reported with scientific precision in an exact replica of the event - so what? For me the story is not that fanciful because I'm used to hearing about this kind of stuff. God's been doing his thing in the quiet corners of life for centuries , we only have to look properly to see what he is up to.
I never said the story was false, I said that it is highly likely that it is false.
Now suppose I told a very similar story regarding a suspected bank robber who claimed that he just found the bag of money. Would you believe him? Why do you believe one unlikely story but not another? Your world view should not mandate that you believe your story. It ma ...[text shortened]... y to be most likely untrue simply based on the fact that stories are rarely reported accurately.
Originally posted by knightmeisterSound like coincidence to me.
I heard this story coming out of a local church (the person who related it was trustworthy). A young guy was walking by a bus station when a strange idea entered his head . He felt that God was somehow telling him to go into the bus station and do a few cartwheels in front of people. In a kind of step out in faith he went and did this with varying d ...[text shortened]... ces" . I know this is not proof of anything but anecdotally it is still evidence of sorts.
Consider the situation. Take 30 people at random. Odds are pretty good one of them is depressed. Now take the kind of people who have to be hanging out at a bus station. Now you've got a lot of depressed people and some feel like killing themselves. (I've been in my share of bus stations.) It is not much of a stretch that there was one suicidal person who was praying to God to please give them a sign.
And then, what accounts as a sign? All it might take is a smile, or anything unusual.
It is a shame that a debate rages on whether this story is true or not. Debating that misses the point, how true this story is becomes important if we wish to use it as evidence for God. It is a feel good story and it does make me feel good.
There are many firsthand accounts of stories like these all over the world and though this one may or may not be false I would say it is likely that at least one of these faith stories are correct. I have even experienced these types of events myself; of course you can count them as God or Chance.
The point that I think is getting missed here is that IF this story is true, or any of these stories are true it does not prove God but it should make you wonder.
I have often asked agnostics how many pieces of evidence do you need before you say that something is correct, and it almost always boils down to “I have to see it for myself”. Even then I wonder if their hearts are so closed that they will find a reason the experience was false like the planetary alignment produced *insert here* then gases were formed and a mutant monkey was born which then *insert here* and that is why I saw it, it was defiantly not GOD!! *shakes head*
Someone prays “dear lord, I need 100 dollars for my rent, please help me, if you do I will believe”, the next day there is 100 dollars in the mail. Now the person believes until they look and see it was sent from their father. Oh so it wasn’t God. I guess he should have addressed the envelope GOD otherwise it can’t be him. Now let’s carry on not believing.
“Do something for me, do as I ask God and I will then and only then believe in you… so long as you keep doing what I tell you” Have people forgotten what a GOD is? IF there is a God your lucky he even spits in your direction!
100 things point to a unified possibility, each thing can point to separate individual maybes… how many things need to point in a direction before you look.
Originally posted by knightmeisterI never said the story was fanciful, I said that the chances of it being reported correctly are extremely low. The problem is that you are ready to take the story as fact simply because you think it supports your beliefs and not as you claim because it is likely to have happened. For example it is a well known fact that there are many many stories about statues of Mary being observed weeping blood. Even if you believe that this is possible and a frequent occurrence, you would be a fool to assume that every report of a statue of Mary weeping blood was fact, yet there are many catholics who would do exactly that and you are falling into the same trap, you believe not because the facts indicate that it is true but because you want it to be true.
I have no doubt that the story itself was not reported with scientific precision in an exact replica of the event - so what? For me the story is not that fanciful because I'm used to hearing about this kind of stuff. God's been doing his thing in the quiet corners of life for centuries , we only have to look properly to see what he is up to.
Originally posted by twhiteheadI totally agree 🙂 I don’t think we should blindly follow anything. but examine it and yourself first.
I never said the story was fanciful, I said that the chances of it being reported correctly are extremely low. The problem is that you are ready to take the story as fact simply because you think it supports your beliefs and not as you claim because it is likely to have happened. For example it is a well known fact that there are many many stories about s ...[text shortened]... , you believe not because the facts indicate that it is true but because you want it to be true.
*hi5*
Side note, that sign is not the work of God 🙂 and a good reason why people who do believe in Christianity should stop idolatry
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Originally posted by ColettiIt is not much of a stretch that there was one suicidal person who was praying to God to please give them a sign.
Sound like coincidence to me.
Consider the situation. Take 30 people at random. Odds are pretty good one of them is depressed. Now take the kind of people who have to be hanging out at a bus station. Now you've got a lot of depressed people and some feel like killing themselves. (I've been in my share of bus stations.) It is not much of a stretch t ...[text shortened]... .
And then, what accounts as a sign? All it might take is a smile, or anything unusual.
And then, what accounts as a sign? All it might take is a smile, or anything unusual. COLETTI
Notice what has happened here. You are obviously very knowledgable about the issues of wishful thinking and people seeing what they want to see. This is the point you have made about the woman asking for a "sign" and then interpreting the cartwheel as a "sign". This would be an excellent point if you hadn't completely missed the fact that the woman didn't just ask for a sign but did ask for a cartwheel (which was why the whole thing was very powerful for her - God knew that this person really needed some very strong positive sign that was hard to explain away by mere chance).
Thus , I contend that you have done the very thing which you assumed that she was doing. Namely , you have assumed that the story had less substance than it does and completely missed that part of the story. Infact , YOU were seeing what YOU wanted to see. My guess is that what you wanted to see is some dumb , stupid story held up as evidence that can be easily be explained away by a layman's knowledge of probability and psychology. My assumption is that your assumption is that the average thicko Christian wouldn't have thought it through properly. This one did and the eggs on your face not mine. You should learn to read and not skim read.