Catharsis

@philokalia said
And this is routinely what he means when he suggests that he debates important issues.

He talks about exactly what he wants without actually going into depth in any way, and he fights to change the topic back to his talking points.

Is this about the topic "Catharsis"?

@fmf said
Does 'Biblically supported' and 'faith-infused' despondency and defeatism about the state of the world and an embrace of, and even impatience for, the 'end times' [please don't pretend you haven't come across it] a hallmark of "false Christians", in your view?

Not at all.

But the problem you have is that you think that there is necessarily misanthropic world view associated with believing that man is fallen.

@philokalia said
But the problem you have is that you think that there is necessarily misanthropic world view associated with believing that man is fallen.

In many Christians, there is, yes, a misanthropic world view associated with belief that "man is fallen" in harness with a view of humanity seen only through that prism.

I have met many of them and there have been more than a few propagating misanthropy here too; the high volume JWs we used to have here were a case in point.

This thread is about the varying effects of theology/ideology on people's outlook, not about the theology/ideology itself.

@philokalia said
And this is routinely what he means when he suggests that he debates important issues.

He talks about exactly what he wants without actually going into depth in any way, and he fights to change the topic back to his talking points.

Do you endorse SecondSon characterizing my ex-Christian/non-Christian perspectives as being a "lie" on page 2?

@fmf said
In many Christians, there is, yes, a misanthropic world view associated with belief that "man is fallen" in harness with a view of humanity seen through that prism.

I have met many of them and there have been more than a few propagating misanthropy here too; the high volume JWs we used to have here were a case in point.

This thread is about the varying effects of theology/ideology on people's outlook, not about the theology/ideology itself.

Saying a world view is misanthropic is rather subjective and is something everyone will disagree on.

Most of the end times focused Americans protestants tend to also be patriotic, correct?

As they are patriotic, would it not be said that their politics are often quite optimistic and their disposition is toward positive relations with their country and countrymen?

They don't have a universally bleak look at humanity.

@philokalia said
Saying a world view is misanthropic is rather subjective and is something everyone will disagree on.

Everybody's world view is subjective and everybody's view on everybody else's world view is subjective. This is something we can agree on.

@philokalia said
They don't have a universally bleak look at humanity.

I haven't been talking about "universally" this or "universally" that, as you well know. But I see what you did there.

@fmf said
Everybody's world view is subjective and everybody's view on everybody else's world view is subjective. This is something we can agree on.

Not exactly.

If I said that "Communists are very critical of rich people," it'd certainly make sense. Their ideology hints at the notion that the non-wealthy are being constantly exploited by the wealthy, right? Because of the rich, there are "chains to break."

You could also say that Islam frowns on adultery and polytheism. There would be no sane Muslim that would say that this isn't the case.

But it does become difficult, very difficult, characterizing attitudes of entire religions or groups, right... because one can have a very different approach to the things that one believes.

You can think of it like...

We live in a fallen world, so everything is bad., or

We live in a fallen world, so all things are forgivable, and we should make efforts to make the best of it.

I've met countless Christians who are very upbeat about all of this. Dare I say, that is sort of the norm.

It's actually a very common trope that religious people are happier:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/religion-happy-atheism-psychology-faith-belief-emotion-mental-health-christianity-a8766376.html

@fmf said
The 'end times'. We have had at least two long conversations about it. In one of them, you predicted it would happen in your lifetime. When confronted about that in a subsequent conversation you estimated it would be within 50 years. What is your view now?

Nothing in this paragraph indicates that I "welcome" end times.

You're not telling the truth. What do you call that where you're from?

@philokalia said
Not exactly.

If I said that "Communists are very critical of rich people," it'd certainly make sense. Their ideology hints at the notion that the non-wealthy are being constantly exploited by the wealthy, right? Because of the rich, there are "chains to break."

You could also say that Islam frowns on adultery and polytheism. There would be no sane Muslim that would ...[text shortened]... tyle/religion-happy-atheism-psychology-faith-belief-emotion-mental-health-christianity-a8766376.html

Yes there are Christians who are upbeat and there are Christians who are not. An Islam-fueled world view that posits that polytheism is bad is entirely subjective.

@suzianne said
Nothing in this paragraph indicates that I "welcome" end times.

You saying you welcomed the 'end times occurred in the conversations we had.

@suzianne said
You're not telling the truth. What do you call that where you're from?

I'm speaking truth to [your] "power", Suzianne.

@philokalia said
But it does become difficult, very difficult, characterizing attitudes of entire religions or groups, right... because one can have a very different approach to the things that one believes.

I am not attempting to characterize attitudes of entire religions or groups.

@philokalia said
It's actually a very common trope that religious people are happier:

Like I said, believers in the 'end times' and the Rapture etc. etc. sometimes seem very anguished and misanthropic about mankind and the world - even to the point of hoping it comes sooner rather than later. Perhaps it's a kind of catharsis

@fmf said
I debate and discuss the moral implications of what they say and the assertions they make about the reality in which I live.

Yes, and what is the reality in which we live?

A. Is this reality the one an omniscient God created?

B. Is this reality arbitrary and a consequence of random chance?