1. Cosmos
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    19 Dec '17 15:53
    OK so organized religions say it's better to give than to receive. So if some homeless person is on a streetcorner and you give him 2 dollars. then the next street there's another one, then another ..pretty soon , now you don't have any money and you're homeless !! What are the rules, as to helping other people?
  2. Standard membersonship
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    19 Dec '17 15:57
    Originally posted by @ogb
    OK so organized religions say it's better to give than to receive. So if some homeless person is on a streetcorner and you give him 2 dollars. then the next street there's another one, then another ..pretty soon , now you don't have any money and you're homeless !! What are the rules, as to helping other people?
    I can be verbose at times. Will you read my few posts in reply to this if they are more than 15 words or less ?
  3. Standard membersonship
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    19 Dec '17 16:052 edits
    First, allow me to say that the person to blame for the saying "It is more blessed to give than to receive" is, according to Paul, Jesus Christ.

    Now, we cannot find in the Gospels where that exact quotation is. But in Paul's speaking as recorded by Luke, he says that it was said by the Lord Jesus.

    Luke who wrote the book of Acts records that Paul said that in Acts 20:35. However, we cannot find Jesus saying that in the Gospels - Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John.

    Paul to the Ephesian elders:
    "In all things I have shown you by example that toiling in this way we ought to support the weak and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that He Himself said,

    It is more blessed to give than to receive." (Acts 20:35)


    That's just a little backround. You can take it as trivia if you wish.
    Below, to the essence of your question.
  4. SubscriberFMF
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    19 Dec '17 16:16
    Originally posted by @sonship
    That's just a little backround. You can take it as trivia if you wish.
    Below, to the essence of your question.
    The essence of his question is: "What are the rules, as to helping other people?"
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    19 Dec '17 16:19
    Giving a homeless person on a streetcorner 2 euros does nothing besides giving yourself a feeling of "I did good".
  6. SubscriberFMF
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    19 Dec '17 16:28
    Originally posted by @ogb
    OK so organized religions say it's better to give than to receive. So if some homeless person is on a streetcorner and you give him 2 dollars. then the next street there's another one, then another ..pretty soon , now you don't have any money and you're homeless !! What are the rules, as to helping other people?
    The "organized religions", as well as the local governments, here where I live, urge people to channel their charitable donations through appropriate civil society organisations which work in systematic or more sustainable ways to tackle poverty (homelessness for example) and, in this case that you're talking about, begging. There are signs near traffic lights (where begging goes on) urging people to use their money - and charitable instincts - in this way. Added to this is the fact that a lot of the begging on the street you see in cities like the one I live in is controlled by low level organised criminals who control the most lucrative locations.
  7. Standard memberapathist
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    19 Dec '17 16:55
    Originally posted by @ogb
    OK so organized religions say it's better to give than to receive. So if some homeless person is on a streetcorner and you give him 2 dollars. then the next street there's another one, then another ..pretty soon , now you don't have any money and you're homeless !! What are the rules, as to helping other people?
    So you have met an actual social problem. I wonder why what "organized religions say" is your benchmark on how to proceed.
  8. Standard memberKellyJay
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    19 Dec '17 16:561 edit
    Originally posted by @ogb
    OK so organized religions say it's better to give than to receive. So if some homeless person is on a streetcorner and you give him 2 dollars. then the next street there's another one, then another ..pretty soon , now you don't have any money and you're homeless !! What are the rules, as to helping other people?
    Give expecting nothing in return, God loves a cheerful giver, when you give do it in secret not letting your left hand know what your right hand is doing. In other words if you are trying to show man how good you are you’re getting your reward, if you are doing it for something in return your getting your reward, if you do it in secret God will reward you.
  9. Standard memberapathist
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    19 Dec '17 16:581 edit
    Originally posted by @great-king-rat
    Giving a homeless person on a streetcorner 2 euros does nothing besides giving yourself a feeling of "I did good".
    It gives that, yes. But why did you say it gives nothing else?

    Slight digression, but who could use a feel-better buzz more than the down-and-out?
  10. Standard memberapathist
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    19 Dec '17 17:00
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    Give exspecting nothing in return, God loves a cheerful giver, when you give do it in secret not letting your left hand know what your right hand is doing. In other words if you are trying to show man how good you are you’re getting your reward, if you are doing it for something in return your getting your reward, if you do it in secret God will reward you.
    So give expecting nothing in return, because God will reward you.

    Kelly! WTF
  11. Standard memberRajk999
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    19 Dec '17 17:06
    Originally posted by @sonship
    First, allow me to say that the person to blame for the saying [b] "It is more blessed to give than to receive" is, according to Paul, Jesus Christ.

    Now, we cannot find in the Gospels where that exact quotation is. But in Paul's speaking as recorded by Luke, he says that it was said by the Lord Jesus.

    Luke who wrote the book of Acts recor ...[text shortened]... ittle backround. You can take it as trivia if you wish.
    Below, to the essence of your question.[/b]
    It is more blessed to give. Here is one the many places where Jesus says it.

    Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand,
    Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom
    prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat:
    I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink:
    I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    Naked, and ye clothed me:
    I was sick, and ye visited me:
    I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
    (Matthew 25:34-36 KJV)


    The blessed givers enter the Kingdom of God.
    All non-givers / receivers are cast out.
  12. Standard memberRajk999
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    19 Dec '17 17:06
    Originally posted by @apathist
    So give expecting nothing in return, because God will reward you.

    Kelly! WTF
    Give expecting nothing in return because it is the right thing to do.
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    19 Dec '17 17:13
    Originally posted by @kellyjay
    Give exspecting nothing in return, God loves a cheerful giver, when you give do it in secret not letting your left hand know what your right hand is doing. In other words if you are trying to show man how good you are you’re getting your reward, if you are doing it for something in return your getting your reward, if you do it in secret God will reward you.
    If your god figure rewards believers who give (secretly) to charity, does this mean you believe he punishes believers who do not give to charity or those who do so without secrecy?
  14. Standard membersonship
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    19 Dec '17 18:134 edits
    Originally posted by @ogb
    OK so organized religions say it's better to give than to receive. So if some homeless person is on a streetcorner and you give him 2 dollars. then the next street there's another one, then another ..pretty soon , now you don't have any money and you're homeless !! What are the rules, as to helping other people?
    OK so organized religions say it's better to give than to receive. So if some homeless person is on a streetcorner and you give him 2 dollars. then the next street there's another one, then another ..pretty soon , now you don't have any money and you're homeless !! What are the rules, as to helping other people?


    I think before you go off and concoct scenarios imaginatively you should have some sober minded logical consideration about the passage.

    What is the blessedness that Jesus spoke of ?
    Is it strictly material?
    Does it only mean the "blessedness" of getting a material return on your liberality.

    ie. " I gave this person 10 dollars. There is no blessedness unless I at least break even with another 10 dollars. Or better yet, I make a profit. The excess is the blessing."

    I say that in this universe the real ultimate blessing is to be made like Jesus Christ. For it is the Son with Whom the Father is well pleased.

    So to give 10 dollars and get to get 10 dollars in return, may be a happiness, but not the ultimate happiness.

    So to give 10 dollars and gain a profit of excess over 10, also may be a happiness, but not the deep and ultimate happiness.

    Suppose you give 10 dollars and you are simply out of the 10 dollars you gave? If you did it in the name of Christ a deeper happiness can be secured knowing that you are like the Son of God.
    He is the One to whom God wills that all the saved by conformed to His image in eternity.

    "Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers." (Rom. 8:29)


    [quote] "Lord Jesus, I just gave this needy one something, And my commercial sense about it was not fulfilled. I neither gained back the money nor had the happiness of a financial profit.

    But Lord Jesus I know that what I did I did in You. And the peace, the joy, the satisfaction of knowing God is well pleased with my living is the greater happiness. It is the blessing of being more conformed to the image of the One with Whom You alone are well pleased - the Son of God.

    Thankyou Lord for the blessing of making me more like You. For I know that eternally, Your will is that forever I would be another son of God like the Firstborn Son of God, conformed to His image." [quote]

    If you gain thirty dollars for giving up ten and do not have harmony with the Father, I don't know how much of a "blessing" or happiness that will be to you.

    This is how I think it usually works. When you are a young believer, God will bless you by showing you that you cannot outgive Him materially. When you expend, He will more than compensate you for. That is with His timing and in His way.

    It may not always be financial. It may be indirectly financial, like maybe giving back to you something that would have otherwise incurred an expense.

    Then latter as you grow and become less commercial minded, God will lead you to realize just to be like Christ is the deeper happiness. To be conformed to the image of the Son of God is the deeper blessedness. That is something that the world cannot give you. That is something that become you - organically. It can never be taken away because it IS you now.

    Latly, suppose you are not a theist. Suppose you are a generous Atheist and are a giving person, a sacrificing person. Will you then also have this blessedness from God ?

    Personally, I would not be surprised if God honors that generosity anyway, and you are blessed in some way. He is much broader in heart than I am.

    Some would say "Well that's good ole Karma. No God needed."
    Maybe they are right that it appears to them just as karma.

    Oh, "No God needed" does not equal "No God exists".
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    19 Dec '17 18:21
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Suppose you give 10 dollars and you are simply out of the 10 dollars you gave? If you did it in the name of Christ a deeper happiness can be secured knowing that you are like the Son of God.
    Are believers in Christ who do not give to charity unlike "the Son of God"?
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