1. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    04 Mar '10 20:52
    A theology that cannot be lived is about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

    Those who propose and interpret a theology of Jesus based on a man living a flawless, sinless life from the point of his conversion are in cloud cuckoo land.

    Only workable theologies can be seriously considered because a belief that cannot be lived out in practice is an irrelevant intellectual exercise.

    In addition a theology that cannot be lived or practiced successfully must have serious problems with it becuse it obviously doesn't work and cannot work. Just like any scientific theory that cannot be demonstrated to work in practice , it's validity and claim to be the "truth" must be questioned.

    Some here propose that Jesus intended that a converted man would never sin again and if he did he would lose eternal life. If this was really true it would mean that a teenager should think very seriously before converting or following Jesus , he might end up worse off than he was if he just not repented! It might even be worth considering a middle age conversion so as to give himself a better chance of getting eternal life? It would be a disincentive to repent.

    A moments thought shows up this idea for what it is.

    A Chocolate teapot.

    Grace is much more practical and workable because it encourages repentance and takes account of the reality of the human condition. In this theology and man can strive to live well but not live in abject fear of damnation. Jesus did not leave us with a chocolate teapot message.
  2. Standard memberRajk999
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    04 Mar '10 21:13
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    A theology that cannot be lived is about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

    Those who propose and interpret a theology of Jesus based on a man living a flawless, sinless life from the point of his conversion are in cloud cuckoo land.

    Only workable theologies can be seriously considered because a belief that cannot be lived out in practice is an ir ...[text shortened]... ot live in abject fear of damnation. Jesus did not leave us with a chocolate teapot message.
    Even more useless than a chocolate teapot is someone who draws conclusions from the Bible without quoting some Bible authority.

    So since we talking about Grace and Salvation, lets have some supporting quotes from Jesus Christ -- the sole authority on the matter.
  3. Illinois
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    04 Mar '10 22:521 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Even more useless than a chocolate teapot is someone who draws conclusions from the Bible without quoting some Bible authority.

    So since we talking about Grace and Salvation, lets have some supporting quotes from Jesus Christ -- the sole authority on the matter.
    Wow, completely unnecessary personal attack.

    Why not say that "conclusions drawn from the Bible without quoting some Bible authority" are useless, instead of insulting KM? Do you have any appreciation whatsoever for the absolute disconnect between what you preach (i.e., love) and how you talk to people (i.e., hatefully) ?

    Seriously.
  4. Standard memberRajk999
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    04 Mar '10 23:23
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    Wow, completely unnecessary personal attack.

    Why not say that "conclusions drawn from the Bible without quoting some Bible authority" are useless, instead of insulting KM? Do you have any appreciation whatsoever for the absolute disconnect between what you preach (i.e., love) and how you talk to people (i.e., hatefully) ?

    Seriously.
    You are absolutely right. My apologies to KM. To be honest I dont know how that post ended up sounded like an attack but it was meant to sound like how you phrased it - I was attacking KMs conclusions and not him personally.
  5. Illinois
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    04 Mar '10 23:511 edit
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    A theology that cannot be lived is about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

    Those who propose and interpret a theology of Jesus based on a man living a flawless, sinless life from the point of his conversion are in cloud cuckoo land.

    Only workable theologies can be seriously considered because a belief that cannot be lived out in practice is an ir ot live in abject fear of damnation. Jesus did not leave us with a chocolate teapot message.
    A fundamental truth about the Christian life is that it is a War. Those who are born of God have within themselves the life of Christ which cannot sin (1 John 3:9), and it is that new life in the Spirit which is at war with the flesh and its lusts (Romans 8:12-14). The mark of the born again Christian is not sinless perfection, but rather meekness, brokenness, and humility (Psalm 51:17; Col. 3:12), since to live in the Light of Christ one cannot but acknowledge the darkness of sin present in the flesh (1 John 1:7-8). Part of the function of Christian fellowship is accountability; it is inevitable that Christians, being prone to temptation, will be overtaken by certain faults, and it is the duty of our brothers and sisters in Christ to admonish us and restore us (Galatians 6:1). As long as a Christian loves his brothers and sisters in Christ (1 John 4:20), in meekness and humility (Eph. 4:2), and continues to put to death the misdeeds of the flesh (Romans 8:13), taking up his cross anew daily (Luke 9:23), repenting as necessary (Rev. 3:19), he or she can be said to be walking with God. As one matures in Christ the victory over the flesh becomes more established (Hebrews 6:1), but as long as the flesh lives it cannot be said that a Christian is without sin.
  6. Illinois
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    04 Mar '10 23:56
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    You are absolutely right. My apologies to KM. To be honest I dont know how that post ended up sounded like an attack but it was meant to sound like how you phrased it - I was attacking KMs conclusions and not him personally.
    I've been guilty of far worse, trust me.
  7. Territories Unknown
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    05 Mar '10 00:46
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    A fundamental truth about the Christian life is that it is a War. Those who are born of God have within themselves the life of Christ which cannot sin (1 John 3:9), and it is that new life in the Spirit which is at war with the flesh and its lusts (Romans 8:12-14). The mark of the born again Christian is not sinless perfection, but rather meekness, bro ...[text shortened]... (Hebrews 6:1), but as long as the flesh lives it cannot be said that a Christian is without sin.
    Way to go, epi: all doctrine and Scripturally-based and all. Sheesh.
  8. Illinois
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    05 Mar '10 00:521 edit
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Way to go, epi: all doctrine and Scripturally-based and all. Sheesh.
    Thank you, sir. EDIT: *bows*
  9. Standard memberRajk999
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    05 Mar '10 01:33
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    I've been guilty of far worse, trust me.
    Cant remember seeing you write insultive stuff ... maybe once or twice, and still its not as bad as mine.

    Even if that is my failure (one of them at least), it should not keep me from telling people what Christ said .. I think.. 🙂
  10. Standard memberRajk999
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    05 Mar '10 01:40
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    A fundamental truth about the Christian life is that it is a War. Those who are born of God have within themselves the life of Christ which cannot sin (1 John 3:9), and it is that new life in the Spirit which is at war with the flesh and its lusts (Romans 8:12-14). The mark of the born again Christian is not sinless perfection, but rather meekness, bro ...[text shortened]... (Hebrews 6:1), but as long as the flesh lives it cannot be said that a Christian is without sin.
    I would agree that all those who profess to follow Christ must keep their fleshly weaknesses under control as far as humanly possible. But that cant be the end of it. What is see in your post is mostly about SELF, ME, I. A greater duty of the Christian is the UNselfish part of his duty, the giving and sharing of worldly possessions to the brotherhood. An extreme example was what existed in the early church (Acts 2:44-46). Contrast this with what exists today in many churches.
  11. Illinois
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    05 Mar '10 02:06
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Cant remember seeing you write insultive stuff ... maybe once or twice, and still its not as bad as mine.

    Even if that is my failure (one of them at least), it should not keep me from telling people what Christ said .. I think.. 🙂
    Cant remember seeing you write insultive stuff ... maybe once or twice, and still its not as bad as mine.

    Well, just because I don't write it, doesn't mean I don't think it. We, of course, are held accountable not only for what we do and say, but also for what we think in our hearts.

    Even if that is my failure (one of them at least), it should not keep me from telling people what Christ said .. I think..

    Undoubtedly!
  12. Illinois
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    05 Mar '10 02:121 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I would agree that all those who profess to follow Christ must keep their fleshly weaknesses under control as far as humanly possible. But that cant be the end of it. What is see in your post is mostly about SELF, ME, I. A greater duty of the Christian is the UNselfish part of his duty, the giving and sharing of worldly possessions to the brotherhood. An ext ...[text shortened]... isted in the early church (Acts 2:44-46). Contrast this with what exists today in many churches.
    I agree, that can't be the end of it. My understanding is that we are created anew in Christ in order to walk in the good works which God calls us to (Ephesians 2:10).
  13. Cape Town
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    05 Mar '10 04:59
    Originally posted by knightmeister
    Those who propose and interpret a theology of Jesus based on a man living a flawless, sinless life from the point of his conversion are in cloud cuckoo land.
    I have always found it interesting how many people believe that the religion has little or nothing to do with the truth, or actual facts, but rather what works for them.
    Your problem is that if Jesus said something that is not useful to you, you discard it (well and good), and then make the flawed claim that Jesus could not have said it.
    Its identical to the age old statement "I could not believe in a God who .... . Therefore God is not ....."
    This is not the first time I have seen you put forward this type of reasoning. Surely it is the person who creates a God to suits his needs that is in cloud cuckoo land?
  14. Standard memberblack beetle
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    05 Mar '10 06:59
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    A fundamental truth about the Christian life is that it is a War. Those who are born of God have within themselves the life of Christ which cannot sin (1 John 3:9), and it is that new life in the Spirit which is at war with the flesh and its lusts (Romans 8:12-14). The mark of the born again Christian is not sinless perfection, but rather meekness, bro ...[text shortened]... (Hebrews 6:1), but as long as the flesh lives it cannot be said that a Christian is without sin.
    Dualism is a bitch😵
  15. Account suspended
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    05 Mar '10 07:32
    Originally posted by black beetle
    Dualism is a bitch😵
    Clan Fraser tartan, how vewy vewy intwesting! A most noble and distinguished Clan dear Beetle who fought alongside Wallace and Bruce to vanquish the chains of slavery!
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