@ghost-of-a-duke saidQuote him Romans 2 again. It also says DOERS are justified, NOT TALKERS. What a man says does not make him righteous, but what he does.
Does it matter?
The work of the law is written on all our hearts, our consciences bearing witness.
A Christian can profess faith all day and profess love for God and Christ 1000 times a day, it is of no use without obedience to the commandments.
An atheist can profess nothing, but if he picks up Jesus off the street, feeds Jesus, clothes Jesus, then he will be welcomed into the Kingdom of God.
Does it matter?
The work of the law is written on all our hearts, our consciences bearing witness.
An atheist cannot come forward to God. He first has to believe that God IS.
"But without faith it is impossible to be well pleasing to Him, for he who comes forward to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him." (Hebrews 11:6).
To believe that God IS is necessary in any regard in order to come forward TO God through Jesus Christ.
Sure, your conscience has something that reflects you being made a moral creature in the image of God. That is true of what is written on your heart whether you are an atheist or a theist. You cannot help the way you are CREATED and MADE.
Of course one who is weak in faith may come saying "Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief".
@sonship saidThese are the 12 disciples of Christ. The bible does not mention that they all called Jesus Lord, neither is that a necessity in order to receive the Holy Spirit but they all had the Holy Spirit. They were all chosen by God, but one was a devil.
I am not writing this for Rajk999's sake. This is for those curious as to how I would answer this person.
Asking him for a reference to Judas calling Jesus Lord, he provides none. But he makes a valid point that perhaps other disciples could not be seen calling Jesus Lord EITHER. So there! Rajk999 would argue.
[quote]
Where is the bible reference for Matthew ...[text shortened]... "a life giving Spirit". For "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
Peter
Andrew
James
John
Philip
Bartholomew
Thomas
Matthew
James
Thaddaeus
Simon
Judas
Its the same in the church. Many are called, baptised, many profess that Jesus is Lord. But some are devils. No devil will get eternal life in the Kingdom of God. So your doctrine of once saved always saved continues to run contrary to bible teachings
@sonship saidA man who keeps the commandments does not need to ask God for faith. God has already blessed him with good works and righteousness and Jesus said that these people are his sheep and they will get eternal life.
@Ghost-of-a-DukeDoes it matter?
The work of the law is written on all our hearts, our consciences bearing witness.
An atheist cannot come forward to God. He first has to believe that God IS.
"But without faith it is impossible to be well pleasing to Him, for he who comes forward to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those w ...[text shortened]... E.
Of course one who is weak in faith may come saying [b]"Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief".
A man who professes faith needs to ask God for works, because without works his faith is dead. You continue to preach a dead faith, leading away the gullible to damnation
Judas is called the son of perdition. (John 17:12)
From the very beginning Jesus knew that it would be Judas who would betray Him.
"But there are some of you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who were the ones who did not believe and who was the one who would betray Him." (John 6:64)
"When I was with them, I kept them in Your name, which You have given Me, and I guarded them; and not one of them perished, except the son of perdition [Judas Iscariot], that the Scripture might be fulfilled." (John 17:12)
@sonship saidHe is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure.
@Ghost-of-a-DukeDoes it matter?
The work of the law is written on all our hearts, our consciences bearing witness.
An atheist cannot come forward to God. He first has to believe that God IS.
"But without faith it is impossible to be well pleasing to Him, for he who comes forward to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those w ...[text shortened]... E.
Of course one who is weak in faith may come saying [b]"Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief".
@sonship saidDid Judas not go out and preach with the twelve with the .. .. power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. .. ????
Judas is called the son of perdition. (John 17:12)
From the very beginning Jesus knew that it would be Judas who would betray Him.
"But there are some of you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who were the ones who did not believe and who was the one who would betray Him." (John 6:64)
"When I was with them, I kept them in Your na ...[text shortened]... e son of perdition [Judas Iscariot], that the Scripture might be fulfilled." (John 17:12)
Yes? then he had the Holy Spirit. But it was taken away, as Paul pointed out happens to evil Christians
John writes that the disciples were ABOUT to receive the Holy Spirit within as rivers of living water.
"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.
But this He said concerning the Spirit which those who believed into Him were ABOUT TO RECEIVE;
for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus was not yet glorified." (John 6:38.39).
Judas never believed into Jesus. He was regretful that he betrayed an innocent man. But there is no indication Judas believed Jesus was the Lord, the Son of God.
Those who believed into Jesus were ABOUT to receive the Holy Spirit within them as rivers of living water flowing out of their innermost being.
Albeit Judas was among the followers who were able to use Christ's invested power to preach and do accompanying works of power. The high priest Caiaphas also somehow prophesied that one man should die for the whole nation. (John 11:50)
From Wiki
Joseph ben Caiaphas, known simply as Caiaphas in the New Testament, was the Jewish high priest who, according to the gospels, organized a plot to kill Jesus. He famously presided over the Sanhedrin trial of Jesus. The primary sources for Caiaphas' life are the New Testament and the writings of Josephus.(My bolding)
I don't think he had the Holy Spirit dwelling within though God used him to make a prophesy.
"But this he did not say from himself, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was to die for the nation."
God used a donkey to speak in the Old Testament.
God by His sovereignty may use someone in a miraculous way.
When Jesus was glorified in resurrection, and He breathed into the disciples the Holy Spirit (See John 20) Judas was long gone and not among them.
@sonship saidA little holy Spirit.
John writes that the disciples were ABOUT to receive the Holy Spirit within as rivers of living water.
"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.
But this He said concerning the Spirit which those who believed into Him were ABOUT TO RECEIVE;
for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus was not yet g ...[text shortened]... nto the disciples the Holy Spirit (See John 20) Judas was long gone and not among them.
Plenty Holy Spirit
What nonsense
You are grasping at straws.
@Rajk999
You are grasping at straws to make a strawman argument to knock down.
I said nothing about plenty or little Holy Spirit.
Did the Word Who was God become flesh? (John 1:1,14).
If you are not clear about the incarnation of God as a man there is no reason to listen to anything else you have to teach about your "another Jesus".
@sonship saidThe authority on who Jesus is and who God is, is not John and it is not Paul. It is the man who you profess to believe with your mouth but continue to deny His teachings. Jesus Christ is the sole authority.
@Rajk999
You are grasping at straws to make a strawman argument to knock down.
I said nothing about plenty or little Holy Spirit.
Did the Word Who was God become flesh? (John 1:1,14).
If you are not clear about the incarnation of God as a man there is no reason to listen to anything else you have to teach about your "another Jesus".
Jesus Christ said
- God is His Father
- God sent Him
- God is greater than Him
- He came from God and will go back to Him
God is God and Jesus is the Son of God.
There are not one and the same
They are not equal.
There is no statement by Jesus that He is God incarnate.
Rajk999 says
The authority on who Jesus is and who God is, is not John and it is not Paul.
Here Rajk999 denies the verbal inspiration of the Scriptures.
Rajk999 is saying that The Gospel of John is not to be trusted as the oracles of God.
The Apostle John wrote that the Word which was with God and was God became flesh (John 1"1,14). He did not say the Word as one third of God. But " ... and the Word was God".
John did not say "And one third of the Word became flesh" but "And the Word became flesh." (v.14)
John did not write "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was 33.3333% of God". No, John wrote under inspiration "And the Word was with God and the Word was God."
Of course it is this same apostle telling us that Jesus said "The Father is greater than I" in John 14:28. The church believes both that the Father is greater than the Son as Jesus said and that the Word Who was God (not 1/3 of God) "became flesh and tabernacled among us" (1:14).
Rajk999 decides he will take one teaching but not take the other.
The Christian church has believed and taken both John 1:1,14 and "John 14:28).
But Rajk999 rejects the Apostle John as speaking and writing the authoritative oracles of God.
Rajk999 also rejects the authority of the Apostle Paul. Paul wrote under inspiration that "For in Him all the fullness was pleased to dwell" (Col. 1:19)
Paul did not write "For in Him 33.3333% of the fullness was pleased to dwell".
Nor did Paul write "For in Him only 1/3 of the fullness was pleased to dwell."
So the Christian church receives Paul's revelation that "For in Him ALL THE FULLNESS was pleased to dwell.".
We reserve the right to believe that "The Father is greater than I" from the mouth of Jesus according to John's Gospel AND that "In Him ALL the fullness was pleased to dwell" according to the Apostle Paul.
Paul also wrote "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (Col. 2:9). "The Father is greater than I" says Jesus and "For in Him dwells ALL THE FULLNESS of the Godhead." We believe both. We trust both. It is not because the Father was greater than Jesus that we change the word of God to read "For in Him dwells one third of the Godhead bodily".
We do not have to be able to explain. We are commanded to believe. John also records Jesus saying " I and the Father are one " (John 10:30). He did not say "I am 33.3333% of the Father". Nor did Jesus say "The Father is the other two thirds of God".
We are thankful the the Apostle John faithfully recorded Jesus saying "Truly, truly I say to you, Before Abraham was I am." (John 8:57). We are thankful John did not write Jesus saying "Before Abraham was I am one third of I am."
He was not 33.333% of the "I am".
He was not one third of the "I am".
He was identical to "I am" that God said to Moses in Exodus 3:13.
"Then Moses said to God, If I come to the children if Israel and say to them, The God of your fathers has sent me to you, and they say to me, What is His name? what shall I say to them? And God said to Moses, I AM WHO I AM. And He said, Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you." (Exodus 3:13,14)
Before Moses was born and before Abraham existed the eternal God is "I am". And Jesus was not one third of I AM but Jesus is "I AM". He is God become a man.
@sonship saidYou hear the voice of another Jesus.
Rajk999 also rejects the authority of the Apostle Paul. Paul wrote under inspiration that "For in Him all the fullness was pleased to dwell" (Col. 1:19)
Paul did not write "For in Him 33.3333% of the fullness was pleased to dwell".
Nor did Paul write "For in Him only 1/3 of the fullness was pleased to dwell."
So the Christian church receives Paul's revelation ...[text shortened]... "I am"[/b]. And Jesus was not one third of I AM but Jesus is "I AM". He is God become a man.
Jesus said : My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life .. ... (John 10:27-28 KJV)
You preach another Jesus
Jesus said : Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man..(Matthew 7:24 KJV)
You have never preached to anyone about keeping the commandments.
You do not love Christ, although you say that you do
Jesus said : If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15 KJV)
Jesus said absolutely nothing about believing that he is God. But because your heart is hardened against God and against Christ and because, and you are taken over by Satan [Witness Lee] you are now telling people that there is some kind of requirement to believe something that is not stated by Christ or anyone for that matter.
The things Jesus did say to do and to believe, you push that aside.... hilarious
You have never preached to anyone about keeping the commandments.
Rajk999 is lying about me.
In this very thread right above his lie I wrote that - "We are commanded to believe"
We do not have to be able to explain. We are commanded to believe.
Where are we commanded to believe in Christ as God incarnate?
Where did Jesus tell us to keep this His commandment?
John 14:11 Jesus commands us to believe. Its a command.
"Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; but if not, believe because of the works themselves."
We are commanded to believe He lives in the Father and the Father lives in Him.
If it is too much for us to understand, He commands that we believe so because of the works the He does. That would include the work of His resurrection from the dead.
He also commands us to abide in Him.
"Abide in Me and I in you. (John 15:4a).
We have to know that He is living, the living God, the living God-man.
Then we are commanded to abide IN the living realm, that living sphere of the living Person of Jesus Christ. We also have to see that the believer's relationship to Jesus Christ is like that of a branch grafted into a vine. He is the true vine and we who believe in Him are the branches in the true vine.
His very life flows into us as we abide in Him. And He abides in us who believe into Christ - God-man.
This is a unusual command. For it is two way. We abide in Him and as a result He abides in us.
"Abide in Me and I in you. "