Originally posted by amannionYou want to dismiss it, dismiss it. You think the mind is the bottom
That's just meaningless mumbo jumbo - the soul is that which directs a life? the soul will direct the mind?
Sorry KJ, but the soul is a meaningless thing. The reality is that christian belief in the soul comes from mistaken greek translations of the biblical texts. You guys have set up a whole theology based on someone's mistakes.
That would be funny if y ...[text shortened]... as,but you're going to have to do better than 'directs a life' and 'direct the mind'...
line of human direction and personality and that is all there is to
human life, your welcome to your beliefs too.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI'm not dismissing anything, but you've got to do better than 'the soul drives the body' or 'the soul drives the mind' if you expect any reasonable person to take this soul idea seriously.
You want to dismiss it, dismiss it. You think the mind is the bottom
line of human direction and personality and that is all there is to
human life, your welcome to your beliefs too.
Kelly
The trouble with the soul is that language about it invariably takes a new age turn - all mystical and energy and life force and more ridiculous stuff. I mean,you may as well start chanting about crystals and so on.
Give me something reasonable and I'll give you the respect your position deserves.
Originally posted by KellyJayI don't want to make the mind anything. I am trying to find out more about peoples concept of the soul and most people seem to be extremely reluctant to talk about it.
It seems you want to make the mind itself the person in this life and the next.
Kelly
So, am I understanding you correctly:
You say that your soul is like some overall controller of your mind and body but is not dependent on them including your memories.
1. When you make a decision, what makes it, your soul or your mind?
2. If it is your soul, how does it make decisions without the aid of memory?
3. If you go mad, then who is making the decisions then?
4. Why would you care what happens to some disembodied super controller that is not your mind and does not have your memories?
Originally posted by KellyJayIf a person is injected with a 'mind altering' substance such as a hormone, hallucinogenic drug etc their character may change completely. Similarly if someone is involved in an accident that affects their brain.
You want to dismiss it, dismiss it. You think the mind is the bottom
line of human direction and personality and that is all there is to
human life, your welcome to your beliefs too.
Kelly
Do they get a new soul when that happens, or is their soul changed by changes to the brain?
I am not criticizing your beliefs here, just trying to understand them better.
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Originally posted by twhiteheadSounds real open minded.
If a person is injected with a 'mind altering' substance such as a hormone, hallucinogenic drug etc their character may change completely. Similarly if someone is involved in an accident that affects their brain.
Do they get a new soul when that happens, or is their soul changed by changes to the brain?
I am not criticizing your beliefs here, just trying to understand them better.
Don't fall for it Kelly. I don't think he really cares.
Originally posted by jaywillWhether it sounds open minded to you or not, should not cause you (or Kelly) to clam up and refuse to talk about it. Why would you be afraid of getting 'trapped' anyway? Are you not confident in your beliefs? I know for a fact that you are generally closed minded, but that does not stop me from sharing my own beliefs and opinions with you or being ready to answer any question you might have about them.
Sounds real open minded.
Don't fall for it Kelly. I don't think he really cares.
Originally posted by amannionIf you are going to discuss the soul you are going to run into the
I'm not dismissing anything, but you've got to do better than 'the soul drives the body' or 'the soul drives the mind' if you expect any reasonable person to take this soul idea seriously.
The trouble with the soul is that language about it invariably takes a new age turn - all mystical and energy and life force and more ridiculous stuff. I mean,you may as ...[text shortened]... o on.
Give me something reasonable and I'll give you the respect your position deserves.
spiritual it is without a doubt the way it is; if you are looking for a
means to measure or indentify it through science you will be
disappointed or at best left wanting. Science is not a reality checker
where all things that can be real or true can be found through science.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI agree that science may not be able to tell us everything about reality. I personally however do not think that there is any other reliable way to attempt to find out about it.
If you are going to discuss the soul you are going to run into the
spiritual it is without a doubt the way it is; if you are looking for a
means to measure or indentify it through science you will be
disappointed or at best left wanting. Science is not a reality checker
where all things that can be real or true can be found through science.
Kelly
Do you have other ways to find out what is real or true and what is your reasoning as to why they might be considered reliable?
I also agree that if the soul is supernatural then we cannot expect to learn everything about it via science. However I would expect people to be able to explain to me what their beliefs regarding it are and for their explanations to make some sense and not be self-contradictory. To often that is not the case.
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Originally posted by twhiteheadThe thing is as it is said in scripture today in this life we see things
I agree that science may not be able to tell us everything about reality. I personally however do not think that there is any other reliable way to attempt to find out about it.
Do you have other ways to find out what is real or true and what is your reasoning as to why they might be considered reliable?
I also agree that if the soul is supernatural ...[text shortened]... ir explanations to make some sense and not be self-contradictory. To often that is not the case.
as it were in a glass darkly. There are things that science can tell us,
and there are things it cannot, simply because it cannot does not
mean that those things it cannot are not real or true, only that due
to our limitations it is beyond us. We also run the risk of seeing things
believe X is true about them and getting it wrong, we mistakenly
look at the evidence one way when it should be viewed as another.
An example of evidence being off we could look at the O.J. trial,
there was a statement, "if the glove does not fit don't convict" or
something like that. That glove could have been there, and someone
could have used it during or after that crime; but, the statement
about O.J. being not guilty because of this put to much importance
on the size of the glove.
Kelly