Christian Tolerance

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
A judicial committee is formed to ascertain if there is any sinful conduct and what needs to be done about it. Using your own analogy the only persons who are qualified to deal with this spiritual aspect are Christian elders. One cannot call a plumber to do it, can they. It is a separate issue entirely from criminality. You would understand this i ...[text shortened]... ministers of religion from false accusation by people too ignorant to understand their position.

There appears to be this massive disconnect between what you are presenting and the reality on the ground given to us by the evidence. You seem to be trying to walk around with a massive pair of rose tinted glasses on your noggin. When you say - 'If the brothers are concerned about abuse they will contact the proper authorities.' Are you talking about the present, the past or both? And which country are you referring to?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
There appears to be this massive disconnect between what you are presenting and the reality on the ground given to us by the evidence. You seem to be trying to walk around with a massive pair of rose tinted glasses on your noggin. When you say - 'If the brothers are concerned about abuse they will contact the proper authorities.' Are you talking about the present, the past or both? And which country are you referring to?

Actually the matter is far more complicated than you think or are willing to admit, nor does it affect merely Jehovahs Witnesses. It depends entirely what the law is and this varies not only from country to country but from state to state in the case of the USA. It is further compounded by the law with regard to who is deemed to hold the privilege and whether this can be waived or is subject to abrogation. In some instances it is the penitent themselves and they can waive the right of privilege, in some states its the minister of religion who holds the privilege and they can hold it on behalf of the penitent and may not be induced or compelled to divulge a single iota to a court of law being protected from doing so by law. In some cases both the minister of religion and the penitent hold the privilege and in other instances neither of them do. In some cases the minister is what is termed a mandated reporter in that they must report or face prosecution. In some instances the law is unclear or ambiguous leaving the minster open to prosecution and the victim of abuse unclear of their rights The point is that its simply not as cut and dry as you have been led to believe or are making out.

During my research into the issue I found a scholarly document which is a little legalese but not too much so that the layman cannot grasp the complexities and which details both sides of the argument. The complexities of penitent privilege and mandatory reporting are presented also who holds the privilege (if anyone ) and in what capacity and in which States and to what extent.

The conclusion is that clear laws and guidance are needed so that all involved, ministers of religion, penitents seeking spiritual counsel, law enforcement authorities and victims of abuse know exactly their position so that ambiguities cannot be exploited.

http://www.gspalaw.com/the-clergy-penitent-privilege-an-overview/

https://www.lasc.org/opinions/2014/13C2879.pc.pdf

the latter ( PARENTS OF MINOR CHILD VERSUS GEORGE J. CHARLET) is a case study where the victim of alleged abuse waived the privilege so that testimony could be given in court. Initially the privilege was upheld by a lower court and then overturned. I reproduce it hear because it highlights just how complex the situation is with regard to law and reporting and what is admissible and what is not depending on State law and who is deemed to hold the privilege and whether it can be abrogated or not.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Actually the matter is far more complicated that you think or are willing to admit, nor does it affect merely Jehovahs Witnesses. It depends entirely what the law is and this varies not only from country to country....

In your view, does the "mandatory reporting" versus "no mandatory reporting" issue affect in any way your moral obligation to report serious crimes to the authorities?